4x5 portrait shoot

Jim Fitzgerald · Jun 25, 2007

I had a client of mine call me today and she wants me to do a portrait of her 5 kids. They will be various ages but they are all over 10 years old. She wants a final print of 16x20 size. The shoot is set for the beach in Malibu this Saturday at a place I'm very familiar with. I am planning on using my 4x5 with either my 210mm or my 135 mm lenses as these both have shutters. I also have a soft focus portrait lens in a barrel that is about 200mm. I was thinking of shooting T-max 400 or FP-4+. I have Polaroid Type 55 also. Is fill flash something I should think about? Any suggestions on developing? I will be using a condensor enlarger to do the prints. I 've got pyrocat hd and D-76 mixed and ready to go. This client has bought several of my contact prints in the past and she asked me what this would cost. What do I charge for something like this. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Suggestions are welcomed! Thanks.

Jim

Peter De Smidt · Jun 25, 2007

You will probably want maximum film speed so that you can use a motion-stopping shutter speed. Both D76 and Pyrocat give pretty good speed with TMY. Whether you need fill flash will depend on the conditions. You may want to have a flash simply to put some sparkle in their eyes.

If possible, get everything set up before putting the people in place. In other words, be ready to shoot immediately after getting everyone in a group. So pre-focus, meter, set camera...

Depth of field will be an issue.

If I were you, I'd head down to the beach with some test subjects, opps, sorry, friends and relatives, and give everything a trial run. Not only will you possible get some nice pics, but you'll have a chance to get the kinks out.

BrianShaw · Jun 25, 2007

You may find that 400 film will restrict you to small aperture... unless it is overcast. If I were you, I'd bring both film and use what works best given the weather. If the sun is out you may experience issues with deeper shadows than desireable unless using a reflector for fill. Also, be quite aware of squinting.

Where in Malibu?

Jim Fitzgerald · Jun 25, 2007

Peter and Brian thanks for the helpful info. Brian, I'm shooting this at a spot up by where PCH comes into Pt. Hueneme. I use this spot for a lot of my seascape work and I know the area pretty well. I'm going to try to keep it simple and hope for some overcast. I will probably be shooting about 1:00 pm.

Jim

BrianShaw · Jun 25, 2007

Ah, there are some nice sites in that area!

brummelisa · Jun 26, 2007

BrianShaw said:
You may find that 400 film will restrict you to small aperture... unless it is overcast.

I haven't tested it and naturally it should be easier to change to a slower film, but isn't it possible to tilt the front standard and by doing so shorten the DOF?

/ Marcus

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 26, 2007

If it's overcast, you can probably do fine without flash (unless you want that effect). If there is strong sun, you'll probably want fill flash at the beach. A reflector is an option as well, but it will need to be fairly large to fill five subjects, and beaches are often windy, so I'd go with flash, unless you're also bringing a crew of assistants to maneuver the reflector and haul the sandbags.

If you've got Polaroid, bring some along for test shots if you don't do this sort of thing often--particularly with fill flash.

Outdoors in daylight--even overcast or full sun with a medium yellow filter, FP4+ should give you plenty of speed for a stationary posed family portrait.

Jim Fitzgerald · Jun 26, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
If it's overcast, you can probably do fine without flash (unless you want that effect). If there is strong sun, you'll probably want fill flash at the beach. A reflector is an option as well, but it will need to be fairly large to fill five subjects, and beaches are often windy, so I'd go with flash, unless you're also bringing a crew of assistants to maneuver the reflector and haul the sandbags.

If you've got Polaroid, bring some along for test shots if you don't do this sort of thing often--particularly with fill flash.

Outdoors in daylight--even overcast or full sun with a medium yellow filter, FP4+ should give you plenty of speed for a stationary posed family portrait.

David, thank you. I don't do this sort of thing that often so I need a refresher course. Since I am my own assistant I guess fill flash would be helpful. This portrait is for my clients husbands 60th birthday gift and I don't want to blow it. She told me that there are going to be about 150 people at the event and my photograph is the main event. I forgot to mention that she wants a warm tone print. Paper suggestions anyone? I have some toughts in mind but would like to hear some suggestions. Thanks.

Jim

BrianShaw · Jun 26, 2007

Jim... I feel your pressure! Good luck!!

Jon Shiu · Jun 26, 2007

Jim Fitzgerald said:
David, thank you. I don't do this sort of thing that often so I need a refresher course. Since I am my own assistant I guess fill flash would be helpful. This portrait is for my clients husbands 60th birthday gift and I don't want to blow it. She told me that there are going to be about 150 people at the event and my photograph is the main event. I forgot to mention that she wants a warm tone print. Paper suggestions anyone? I have some toughts in mind but would like to hear some suggestions. Thanks.

Jim

I like Ilford MGIV FB in Sepia (with partial bleaching).

Jon

Hugo Zhang · Jun 27, 2007

Jim,

A reflector will be helpful. Other people can hold that for you while you shoot. Using my 8x10, I find it a good idea to tie a string of dental floss on the front standard and let the tip of the string touch your subject's nose when his/her eyes in focus on the gg. Of course you practice this and cut the string to the proper length before your shoot. When I use two lenses of different focal length, I use two strings.

Don't worry about shallow DOF, I have seen beautiful portraits shot with lens wide open.

Relax and enjoy. Even if you only have a few good ones, that will be a success.

Peter De Smidt · Jun 27, 2007

Hugo Zhang said:
Jim,

Don't worry about shallow DOF, I have seen beautiful portraits shot with lens wide open.

I agree that I've seen many good portraits with shallow depth of field. What I haven't seen are all that many shallow depth of field group portraits. Sure, it could be done, but personally, I'd aim for f16 or an even smaller f-stop.

waynecrider · Jun 27, 2007

Watch the squinting and I'm with David on the reflector which usually when owned run around 3x4; For one yes, for 5 no. There are tents and butterfly's available which would need assistants for day time shots. I have seen some portrait books in the photo section of Barnes and Noble or Border's that have pictures of beach shots. Check those as well.

Jim Fitzgerald · Jun 28, 2007

Well everyone, thanks for all of the input. My client called me the other day and wants to change the shoot location to a garden setting at her friends home. I can hope for overcast but as hot as it has been in SO Cal the last few days. I think it will be sunny. I'm doing a test set up with my lights tonight. The location is still in the beach area. I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes.

Jim

Peter De Smidt · Jun 29, 2007

I hope everything goes well Jim.

BrianShaw · Jul 1, 2007

Saturday has come and gone. Tell us the story Jim... leave in ALL of the details!

Jim Fitzgerald · Jul 1, 2007

Well, guys I developed the negs last night and some are thin. I have some keepers. We ended up going to a condo that my friend's friend owned in Pacific Palisades. There was a nice garden area with trees and shade! The ocean was in the distance. I had to deal with wind. Not to good with the 4x5 but manageable. We found a nice spot and I set up. I couldn't use my umbrellas for my strobes, too much wind and no sandbags. So I used some diffused flash. I was shooting FP-4 at F-22-F-32 at around 1/2 -1 second and my subjects held still very well. Looks like my focus and DOF is ok. I showed them the set up by having them all look under the darkcloth and I think this helped them understand the process. Shot 14 sheets and was rushed as is usually the case with some portrait work I've done. This is what I don't get. I explained to my client that we need time and cannot be rushing through this. But they started getting hungry and I had to pick up the pace. Did the group of five. Three girls and two boys. Then did the three girls by themselves and then the boys. I've got to do the proof sheets and test prints today. Now the fun begins. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. When you get out on something like this you really have to know your stuff. You have to think quickly and adjust to conditions. Very different from my normal landscape work. It was fun and challenging. I'll let you know how the prints look.

Jim

Peter De Smidt · Jul 1, 2007

Hi Jim,

Sound like you did a great job. The time pressures also seem to me to be par for the course. I used to offer to use an 8x10 to do portraits of family members. If they agreed, they'd go to where I wanted them, put on a fixed smile, and let me take one photo. Then they were off. I quickly decided that it wasn't worth my time.

Jim Fitzgerald · Jul 1, 2007

Peter, you're right. It is very hard to deliver on someones idea when they do not understand the craft of photography. Group portrait work is difficult. One must work intuitively. My landscape work is more to my liking. I guess if I wasn't so rushed it would be different. Next time it will be on my terms.

Jim

Richard Kelham · Jul 2, 2007

Jim Fitzgerald said:
Next time it will be on my terms.

Don't bank on it! I recently had to do a family group 19 people including myself, ages ranging from 4-90. I tried to do 4 shots to be on the safe side, but after the first couple the whole thing started falling apart...kids today seem to have an attention span measured in nanoseconds!

Fortunately the first shot was OK.

Richard

Scott Peters · Jul 2, 2007

A suggestion would be to bring another camera too...like a MF or 35mm just in case....this happened to me when neighbors asked for a 'friendly' family shoot. I showed up to see 35 'friendly' family members....glad I brought something I could shoot faster....and got some great 'less-posed' more relaxed, keepers...

Fill in flash with polaroid as suggested above is a really good one too....

I know its 16 x 20, but I love portraits in platinum/palladium....perhaps even an outside lab...

Jim Fitzgerald · Jul 2, 2007

Scott, It is done. 14 sheets, working on instinct and praying for the wind gods to co-operate. I've got some good negs to work with. Now the darkroom fun begins.

Jim

4x5 portrait shoot

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency