4x5 Infrared?

Logan Group · Nov 20, 2006

I remember back in the 90s (early 90s) that at least two different companies (Kodak being one) made 4x5 Infrared film. Obviously Kodak has jumped ship on almost anything to do with black and white but does anyone know of another company that produces 4x5 Infrared?

Shmoo · Nov 20, 2006

Rollei makes IR in 4x5.

D Dahl · Nov 20, 2006

Welcome to APUG! Shmoo is correct, although I believe Rollei IR is "near-infrared" and not a true infrared like Kodak HIE. There are a couple of members on APUG that have had fantastic results with it. As far as I'm aware of, the Rollei IR is the only 4x5 available. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Robert Hall · Nov 20, 2006

That's pretty much it.

poutnik · Nov 21, 2006

I've never used IR film, but I think that Maco also makes their IR 820c Aura film in 4×5" size (at least according to the catalogue at FotoImpex) and according to the data sheet at Maco homepage, they even cut it for 8×10" size...

Hope this helps

George Papantoniou · Nov 21, 2006

Maco and Rollei film is the same thing. It's manufactured by Efke Croatia or some other Eastern European factory.

timeUnit · Nov 21, 2006

D Dahl said:
Welcome to APUG! Shmoo is correct, although I believe Rollei IR is "near-infrared" and not a true infrared like Kodak HIE. There are a couple of members on APUG that have had fantastic results with it. As far as I'm aware of, the Rollei IR is the only 4x5 available. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Well it goes up to about 820 nm. HIE goes to 950 nm, so is much more sensitive obviously.

Either way, there is a LOT of IR effect from the Rollei/Maco IR film. I've used it with nice results, albeit underexposed... and only in 120. :rolleyes:

Check it out:
http://timeunit.se/article/306/Onesecondeachday

timeUnit · Nov 21, 2006

George Papantoniou said:
Maco and Rollei film is the same thing. It's manufactured by Efke Croatia or some other Eastern European factory.

Are you sure these "high-tech" films are produced in the former east bloc? I thought it was only the "simpler" emulsions that were, and that IR film etc was made in Germany?

EdR · Nov 21, 2006

George Papantoniou said:
Maco and Rollei film is the same thing. It's manufactured by Efke Croatia or some other Eastern European factory.

Hi George,

This is not in fact the case. The Rollei films were developed "in co-operation" with Maco. They are not Maco films simply rebranded as Rollei. Nor are they produced in the Eastern Bloc. All the Rollei emulsions are produced and quality controlled by Maco Germany (who I think are actually based in Hamburg).

Cheers,
Ed

poutnik · Nov 21, 2006

timeUnit said:
Are you sure these "high-tech" films are produced in the former east bloc? I thought it was only the "simpler" emulsions that were, and that IR film etc was made in Germany?

I'm fascinated by your attitude to the so-called eastern block. What makes you think that "high tech" technology could not be invented and/or manufactured there? For example, did you know that contact lenses were originally invented and developed by a medical doctor in the Czech Republic? That the process of liquid chromatography was invented by a Czech scientist here in the Czech Republic? That the Czech scientists invented a way to weave (on industrial scale) a usable tissue from nano-fibres, that noone else is able to do on the industrial scale so far? And the same is definitelly true for the rest of the former eastern block.

This attitude of yours is quite common and completely wrong. It would be nice if you could base your attitude on correct information.

I'm sorry for such a post, but I'm proud for Czech scientists here and anywhere in the world.

Ole · Nov 21, 2006

Jiri, EFKE is from Croatia - Fotokemika Zagreb - whol also makes Varykon and Emaks papers, to the best of my knowledge.

Are you perhaps thinling of ORWO (ORiginal WOlfen - the original AGFA plant)?

Ole · Nov 21, 2006

Forgot to mention that I've used MACO IR 820c with good results, and fail to see the sense of the "Aura" version in 4x5".

Here's an IR 820c shot:
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coriana6jp · Nov 21, 2006

May not be of much help now. But JandC said they are planning on releasing a new IR fim sometime next year in all sizes. Right now it may be the best option to hope for, considering the high cost of the Rollei film.

Here is hoping John gets that film ready soon.

Gary

poutnik · Nov 21, 2006

Ole said:
Jiri, EFKE is from Croatia - Fotokemika Zagreb - whol also makes Varykon and Emaks papers, to the best of my knowledge.

Are you perhaps thinling of ORWO (ORiginal WOlfen - the original AGFA plant)?

Ole, you're right. I just got carried away...

It's sad that even people here in Europe have that kind of attitude - it's not that far to have a look for yourself what it's like in the Eastern Block countries. And there are so many examples in everyday life I could use to show that at least the now-EU-part of eastern block is not any different from the so called "developed western world". I'll restrain myself from elaborating and reacting on this further, though...

timeUnit · Nov 21, 2006

poutnik said:
I'm fascinated by your attitude to the so-called eastern block. What makes you think that "high tech" technology could not be invented and/or manufactured there? For example, did you know that contact lenses were originally invented and developed by a medical doctor in the Czech Republic? That the process of liquid chromatography was invented by a Czech scientist here in the Czech Republic? That the Czech scientists invented a way to weave (on industrial scale) a usable tissue from nano-fibres, that noone else is able to do on the industrial scale so far? And the same is definitelly true for the rest of the former eastern block.

This attitude of yours is quite common and completely wrong. It would be nice if you could base your attitude on correct information.

I'm sorry for such a post, but I'm proud for Czech scientists here and anywhere in the world.

Hey, take it easy...

Firstly, I have not in any way stated that any states formerly under the oppression of the Soviet Union are incapable of making high-tech products or conducting research on a high or world leading level.

Secondly, I have not stated that the states formerly under the oppression of the Soviet Union are incapable of making great high-tech films, but my impression is that they don't. Many posts here on APUG tell of eFKe's plant as a well functioning place, but using 1950's technology, and unable to make higher speed emulsions than 100 ISO. My own impression of eFKe's products mirrors this. My impression of the 10 (defective) rolls of Foma film I've used is that Foma's quality control leaves a bit to desire. My impression of the Fortepan 400 sheet film is the same. QC is not top notch.

So, my own empirical impression of the Czech and Croatian film making industry is that it does not live of to the standards of Ilford, Kodak or Fuji.

This, I'm sure, has absolutely nothing to do with the capability and ingenuity of the universities, scientists, and research labs of the Czech republic, Croatia or any other state formerly under the oppression of a socialist dictatorship, but a lot to do with money. The big three have had fifty years of massive customer base, buying their products at a premium price, so that their research labs and scientists can improve all aspects of film making. Not at all the same with the Foma et al.

That being said, I use and love Foma and Forte papers, and also Adox papers of which some are produced in eastern Europe. I've had very few issues with these products. To me, they are superior to many products made in the UK.

Finally, I did not mean to offend or put down Czech or any other scientists from eastern Europe. I do not have an attitude towards them. I think you jumped the gun a little bit here... but no hard feelings on my part.

Sincerely,
Henning

poutnik · Nov 21, 2006

timeUnit, explanation taken, I'll try to be less hot-headed...

Digidurst · Nov 21, 2006

poutnik said:
timeUnit, explanation taken, I'll try to be less hot-headed...

Hey, no harm done. Besides, it's nice to see someone so passionate and proud of their country. Good light to you

Logan Group · Nov 21, 2006

I certainly opened a can of worms

I thank you all for the responses and will buy at least the medium format Rollei IR film from J and C when they reopen. Any recommendations on another dealer of Rollei and/or Maco?

-Logan Group

Fotohuis · Nov 21, 2006

The Czech Republic can be proud of it's products and their industry. They certainly have some highlight on optical industry and metall fine parts.
By the way it's Middle Europe, not Eastern Europe.

I like their B&W products, already over 15 years ago, so much that 10 y.a. we started importing them to the Netherlands. From a moderate Q.C. with failures to a nice quality product within 10 years.
A lot of European countries can take an example of the Czech Republic and his habitants, also the Netherlands. I have no family overthere just a pure business relation and in the mean time some (photo-) friends.

Here some examples on Fomapan T200 B&W 35mm film:
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About the IR film question:
Rollei IR820/400 is an industrial B&W film made by Gevaert in Belgium, available in 35mm, 120 roll film and 4X5" sheet film.
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Maco IR820C (in the mean time discontinued) is an Efke 100 extended sensitivity IR film made for Maco by Efke in Croatia.
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If you can read the specs you can see it ARE different films. Where IR820C is going straight to 820nm, Rollei IR820/400 is going down faster over 750nm. That's why you can use IR820C with a RED filter and for Rollei IR820/400 you need a 695nm or 715nm (or Hoya 72R/Cokin 720nm) (black) IR filter to get the 'wood' effect.
Without filter IR820C is iso 100 were Rollei IR is iso 400. Efke 100/820C are softer emulsions so you have to take care. Rollei IR is more sturdy, made on clear PET layer with non-curling layer.

Whatever you are doing, both films are very suitable with the right filters and E.I. for IR photography.

The mentioned Kodak HIE is far going over 900nm. Very sensitive and MUST be also load and unload in complete darkness. Very grainy and halo because the A.H. layer is not there. Completely different film and available in 35mm only.

Which film you like, certainly it's very personal.

Which film you are using is not so important. At the end only the results are valid. And please do not tell me with Czech Foma films from Hradec Kralove you can not get suitable photograpical results. It's the same nonsense to tell that Ilford or Kodak have no quality products and are selling worldwide lousy film. Certainly not!

Best regards,

Robert

wirehead · Nov 21, 2006

Here's the thing I'm wondering...

If the old 820C was made by Efke... is there any hope that Efke will sell it on their own?

Allen Friday · Nov 21, 2006

Besides all that, the Czech Republic has the best beer in the world.

Oops, did I open a can of worms with that statement?

Fotohuis · Nov 21, 2006

That's a nice topic which can give sometimes a real headache.

If the old 820C was made by Efke... is there any hope that Efke will sell it on their own?

The only thing I can tell you on a public forum is that we are internally informed about an internal memo between Rollei/Maco and Efke about this subject some months ago.

juan · Nov 21, 2006

I'm interested in shooting night photos with infrared flash - anybody have any idea how sensitive regular 4x5 B&W film (say Efke PL100) is to infrared light?
juan

Fotohuis · Nov 21, 2006

Efke 100 film is completely red blind.

Red=black.

IR820C is a modified Efke 100 film emulsion with organic sensitizers produced on Maco specifications.

juan · Nov 21, 2006

Thanks, I figured it couldn't be so easy.
juan

4x5 Infrared?

Logan Group

Shmoo

D Dahl

Robert Hall

poutnik

George Papantoniou

timeUnit

timeUnit

EdR

poutnik

Ole

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Ole

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coriana6jp

poutnik

timeUnit

poutnik

Digidurst

Logan Group

Fotohuis

wirehead

Allen Friday

Fotohuis

juan

Fotohuis

juan

4x5 Infrared?

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