4x5 Grafmatic backs?

[Charles Webb]

It seems that every where I look I see Grafmatic film holders for sale. I just wonder how many "Ape Huggers" actually use them? I have had mixed emotions about them for years, never really fell in love with them but kind of just co-existed with them.

I own several, but it seems when I have a shot I really want I grab a hand full of two up holders and go get the shot. I understand the size thing, six shots in roughly the same space as two. I can't remember what I paid for the Grafmatic's I have, that was too long ago but I see them on ebay and elsewhere for 30 to 150 bucks. To me that is a wide margin. Is a $30.00 back as good as a $150.00 back? How can you tell if you are getting a bargain or being ripped off?

Does every one use them ? or are others like myself, use them only when necessary? When I see Graphmatics going for better than a hundred bucks, I am tempted to market my own. How about them? guys and gals do you use em or prefer something else?


Charlie.................

 

[jimgalli]

Charlie, I've got one out at work I've loaded and played with, but never used. I can't get past somewhere I read that film plane registration on these is compromised compared to good old rite-way's and of course Toyo's were the best of all if you can afford them. That said, I do love the readyloads Acro's as long as Unc Sam is paying the bill.

 

[Neal]

Dear Charlie,

If you have a Crown Graphic with a nice rangefinder the Graphmatics give you a nice walking around camera. I never use them if I am going to set up on a tripod, but they are just right for handheld shots.

Neal Wydra

 

[Troy Ammons]

They are a bit bulky and heavy for me although it is less bulky and cumbersome to use than 3 ds film holders.

I have wondered about the film flatness too.

I was originally after a fuji quickchange multi-loader, but after asking around they suffer from light leaks. They have a holder that you load preloaded cartridges into. Each cartridge holds 8 sheets of film.

Graphmatics weigh 1#-1oz for 6 shots and do not really save any weight, but it is a whole lot easier if you are shooting hand held with a RF without the GG. I dont like them on a tripod with GG focusing. For 18 shots you would haul around 3#-3oz, compared to readyloads and a kodak holder at 1# -10oz. If you were on a trip and wanted to load 42 sheets for the day it would take 7 holders at almost 7 1/2#. 42 readyloads and a holder would equal around 2#-10oz.

It would be nice if there was a lightweight modern version of the grafmatic that held something like 10-12 shots.

Also the blasted things are so thick I have a hard time getting them under the GG so its probably better clipped into the graflok back IMO.

I find them an incredible PIA to load and unload.

 

[blansky]

I have a bunch I use with my Littman because it is a fast shooting camera and they're a good fit.

For a more deliberate application maybe they aren't necessary.

Although I have about 10, there are some that seem to jam once in a while. The ebay price may be indicative of their quality, since they are pretty old and it may depend on how overused they have been.

I haven't seen any of mine that aren't sharp.

MIchael

 

[Curt]

Troy sums it up. Difficult to load but I have 4 and use them with my Pressman. I don't take all 4 out though they do weigh up fast. I had to get a longer screws for my camera so the springs don't have to flex so much. The original setup would have damaged my spring with heave use. Mine are 2x3 holders. I was used to them because I had a bag loader on a Graphic D in college and got used to the septums.

 

[Nige]

what film can you get in readyloads and at what cost?

 

[Troy Ammons]

what film can you get in readyloads and at what cost?

You can go to B+H and type readyload and quickload (fuji) and come up with an answer, but not to many and they are expensive. I try to use them when I am going light.

You can get several kodak slide films, including E100G and E100VS. Also Tmax. Velvia, Provia and Astia and a few others from Fuji.

The good side is no loading and unloading and no dust. I was on a week long trip last year shooting from 20-40 4x5 shots per day, and at night when I finally settled into a nice hotel room, exhausted, i had to change film. Uggg! I was using mostly sheet film that trip.

Its about $3 per sheet.

Tmax is about $2.25.

 

[Troy Ammons]

Oh also, although they are light and easy to use, they can be a pain to strip to get ready for processing.

 

[df cardwell]

Grafmatics ? Gosh, I've used mine for 30 years and love 'em.

Find a Kindermann if you can.

Just slow down and have fun. Great piece of gear.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm a big fan of Grafmatics. I've got 8 4x5's, 1 2x3 (and another one on the way that someone offered me recently), and I've got 2 10-shot 4x5" Kinematic holders. I only use regular filmholders for 4x5" for tests or other situations where I only plan to make one or two shots.

Film flatness is actually supposed to be better with Grafmatics than with most traditional holders, as long as the septums are in good condition (one of the magazines did a comparison long ago. I think you can find the reference on Butzi's website). I don't find them difficult to load. It's just a matter of practice.

There are two types for 4x5". Earlier ones don't lock automatically when you finish the last shot, and later ones do, and it's not always obvious from a picture which is which. Both are perfectly functional, but if you have a non-locking Grafmatic, just be careful to remove it from the back by holding the body of the holder--don't pull it out by the darkslide handle.

Kinematics are a little less smooth in operation, and less robust in general, but if you can find one in really good condition, it's nice to be able to carry 20 sheets in two holders for an afternoon of casual shooting.

For 5x7" I've got two bag mags--one for plates that's been converted for film and one for film. These hold 12 sheets each. More primitive than a Grafmatic, but a compact way to carry a lot of film.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I've got several, and find that one has gotten sticky. It is rather sluggish and sometimes will seem to hang up. Inspection has shown me nothing obvious, but I suspect that there will be differences in the quality of the backs you see offered second hand.

I've seen them with heavy scratches on the inside back when completely disassembled, and sometimes the individual holders get slightly bent. So, just keep an eye on them and do regular cleaning and maintenance. If they scratch, make sure you get metal shavings or blackened metal flecks out of the works. I've seen both silver and black metal dust in these backs after heavy use.

I used to use them when flying. It is easy to put one of these holders into one of the zippered pockets on the leg of your flight suit. I used to carry three. One in the camera and one in each pants leg pocket. That gave me a lot more shots than regular 4x5 holders. The AF insisted that we use 4x5 for all major shots, so I had to carry both a 4x5 Speed Graphic and a 35mm to get everything covered.

When we flew a parabolic orbit upside down over the object we were photographing, we were doing what they did in Top Gun, flying upside down and taking pictures. It was easy then. One camera or film pack would float in the air due to zero gravity. I could then just pluck the next one out of the air and keep going. It seemed like we had about one to two minutes at reduced or zero gravity. I still have memories of seeing the camera just floating in the air in front of me. Coriolis force would cause it to start to do a slow pirouette in the air just before gravity returned, so I knew when my time was up and I had to 'pluck' or get a camera in the face or elsewhere. Actually, I was turning and the camera was standing still, so it just appeared to do a lazy circle, but it was me that was doing the moving.

Anyhow, I put a lot of use on those babies and so did the rest of our photographers. Make sure that they function without sticking and have few metal gouge marks on the inside when disassembled. I've spent up to 8 hours in one stretch constantly clicking the shutter with a pile of packs in my case.

PE

 

[roteague]

what film can you get in readyloads and at what cost?

As Troy answered. Most of Fuji's films are available in QuickLoads, including Acros. I shoot probably 90% QuickLoads (I don't like loading holders). I know that QuickLoads are not available in New Zealand (or so I have been told), not sure about Australia. They are expensive, about $70 US for a 20 sheet box of Velvia 50 (I go through about 2 boxes a month).

 

[erikg]

I'm a fan of the grafmatic, too. There is a third type that I use most often which was made for the graflex back. That is what I use it on, much easier than regular holders on the Graflex SLR. I've also used the old "bag mag" but those are a bit funky.

 

[glbeas]

I have a pile of them too. They are not hard to use and fairly easy to take care of. The worst jam I had was caused by some septums that didn't have the front edges turned up to keep the film in. A sheet slid out of the septum while the holder was in a vertical shot and prevented me from closing it up. I lost all six sheets to that, but I learned what to do to keep it from happening again. I do like them. Since I got the last one I haven't used a regular holder since in the field.

 

[Nige]

As Troy answered. Most of Fuji's films are available in QuickLoads, including Acros. I shoot probably 90% QuickLoads (I don't like loading holders). I know that QuickLoads are not available in New Zealand (or so I have been told), not sure about Australia. They are expensive, about $70 US for a 20 sheet box of Velvia 50 (I go through about 2 boxes a month).

US$70 works out to be $5.00AUD a shot... probably $5.50 by the time postage is included. Just checked local supplier and they have Velvia & Astia listed in Quickloads.... only AUD$175 for 20 sheets! haha! $8.75 a shot! Std sheets of Velvia run $59/10 $5.90 a shot). Add about $6-7 per sheet to get it processed (yes it's that much.. I enquired!)

In the B&W world, Acros isn't listed and it's pretty hard to find in 120 too. Tri-X is about AUD$66 /50 sheets... J&C during their free postage sale was AUD$25 for 50 sheets.

LF colour is expensive stuff!

 

[roteague]

US$70 works out to be $5.00AUD a shot... probably $5.50 by the time postage is included. Just checked local supplier and they have Velvia & Astia listed in Quickloads.... only AUD$175 for 20 sheets! haha! $8.75 a shot! Std sheets of Velvia run $59/10 $5.90 a shot). Add about $6-7 per sheet to get it processed (yes it's that much.. I enquired!)

In the B&W world, Acros isn't listed and it's pretty hard to find in 120 too. Tri-X is about AUD$66 /50 sheets... J&C during their free postage sale was AUD$25 for 50 sheets.

LF colour is expensive stuff!

Especially in Australia!!!!

You could probably order film from the US, but I imagine you would have to pay the duties on it. Check with Graeme Hird, he would know. For processing, you could send it to California, to Calypso Imaging; they charge US $1.30per sheet - there shouldn't be any duty on this.

 

[Charles Webb]

Many thanks to all for taking time give me your views! Perhaps I should have paid more attention to the Graphmatic's over the years, but shame on me, I didn't. Thanks again! Charlie................

 

[waynecrider]

Did anyone else see the ad over in Photonet for near new Grafmatic's @ $225 ea.

 

[Kimberly Anderson]

I have three of them, one of them rather recent it looks like because it is a slightly different finish and is in much nicer condition than the other two.

I didn't know they sold them new still. Very interesting.

I bought all of mine used over the years, none cost me more than $100.

I don't use them anymore, don't shoot 4x5 any longer. When I did, I didn't notice any problems with sharpness or focal plane. I also didn't mind the loading/unloading, although it did take some patience and time.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Any new ones floating around are "new old stock." They haven't been made for some years.

Fuji Quickchange was a new 8-sheet version sold mainly in the Japanese market (you could get them from a few places like Badger and Robert White that imported them directly), but I think they've been discontinued.

 

[timothyhyde]

none available

I have been looking for a new or used Pentax digital spot meter (Zone VI improved or not) and they aren't to be found. I have found nada in stock anywhere--in the US anyway. There is a used one on Ebay but it's going for well over 300 bucks at the momen. I'd say 220 is a good price.