4x5 FP4+ and Pyrocat MC in Glycol - no staining?

I'm finally getting sharp negatives using my new Toyo film holders (thanks, B.S. Kumar); now I'm troubleshooting my processing.

I shot some test exposures of FP4+ @ ISO 125, and processed them like this:

5 minutes water prewash
8 minute develop in 1:1:100 Pyrocat MC
1 minute waster wash
4 minute fix in Ilford Rapid Fiver (1:4)
1 minute wash in drum
Wash ten minutes in my Gravity Works film washer

Used distilled water for everything save for the wash; all temps @ 20C (the wash water as close as I could get it). I processed my two test negatives in an Jobo Expert Drum 3010 on a CPA-2 at the slowest speed and lowest temperature.

The negatives are a bit dense and contrasty (I'll try 7.5 minutes develop for my next test), but otherwise not to bad. But I don't see any staining effect. They look like my HC-110 negatives.

The last time I used a Pyro developer (admittedly 16 or so years ago) I had a definite staining effect. These - not so much?

Did I overfix? Should I try a different fixer? Or do Pyrocat MC negatives not have as much staining as Rollo Pyro (or whatever variation you use)?

digital_archivist said:

Or do Pyrocat MC negatives not have as much staining as Rollo Pyro (or whatever variation you use)?

Click to expand...

Different staining developers will give slightly different degrees and hues of stain. Moreover, there can be considerable differences in the degree of overall, non-image staining due to several factors. It's especially this non-image stain that's very visible because it colors the unexposed/blank areas of the film. While it may look 'good', it's not actually useful in any way.

I'm sure if you critically compare your HC-110 developed FP4+ negatives with the Pyrocat-developed negs, there will be a visible difference in the hue of the silver image. The difference may be rather subtle, but the pyro-developed negatives will look slightly more warm-toned.

Fixing won't remove the stain. Nor will the use of an acid fixer. Using an alkaline fixer may promote general stain as a result of developer carry-over. Since it's of no use, it won't help any, but I suspect it's one reason why some still swear by the use of an alkaline fixer for staining developers. That particular myth turns out to be rather persistent.

Don't worry about the fixer choice. Despite what many say, acid fixers are fine to use with staining developers. Try a stronger dilution, like 1+1+75, or even 1+1+50. I find FP4 and especially HP5 to stain better in stronger solutions, and even more stain with semi-stand (more dilute at long developing times). Have you compared them with negatives that you have developed in a non-staining developer? I'll bet there is a difference in colour. You could also do away with your 5 minute prewash, as Ilford recommends against it with their films. It probably has nothing to do with it ...I never prewash any of their films, but do with others, especially those that make my fixer a pretty colour

Thank you both! I especially appreciate the feedback concerning the fixer.

I'll try a 1/1/75 batch and see if there's a difference.

Have you made prints yet? Because there's where you'll see your results. I've made beautiful prints whose negatives looked unpromising, at best. And vice versa!
If your negs appear too contrasty, yes, try a shorter development time. Then make proper proofs and see how they look. When you have a negative you like, enlarge it and see how the high values separate.
The main reason to use Pyrocat (or other staining developers) is to easily provide those beautifully subtle highlights that give your prints the illusion of reality.
I've been using 4x5 FP4+ developed in Pyrocat since 2011, and it's a lovely combination. Best of luck!

DA, I've used staining developers for well over 25 yrs now; first PMK and then Pyrocat HD, HD in glycol and occasionally MC. I've likely used more FP4+ than any other film and had not problems with fixers, TF-4, TF-5 and Ilford Hypam.