4x5 Film in 35mm tank

muzzatron · Feb 10, 2015

Hi,
I have been shooting some 4x5 (Ilford 125) on my Ilford pinhole and want to develop my own film. But I only have a 35mm tank.

Has anyone successfully developed 4x5 in a 35mm tank? I did see a video of a guy doing what he called 'The Taco Method' but am a bit nervous about trying it.

Michael W · Feb 10, 2015

I've done it many times in a standard Paterson two reel tank, with great results. That is one sheet at a time, curved around the inner wall. Of course make sure the emulsion side faces in. It does use a lot of chemistry as it needs about 800ml to fill the tank and cover the sheet. I don't like the taco method - tried a few times and always got scratches or uneven development on some sheets.

Newt_on_Swings · Feb 10, 2015

Some people use the taco method (emulsion curled in in, film secured by small rubber band) in the 3 roll patternson tanks, you can get a few sheets in, about 3-4. It works ok, but if you have a light tight room, tray development is great and is a key technique since the inception of photography. Get some gloves for that though and you can do many more sheets at a time. You can buy trays, or even use clean take out containers. Another thing about tray development is that you can develop by inspection using IR goggles, or if the film allows a very dim safe light of the right color.

Simon R Galley · Feb 10, 2015

Or you could use a MOD 54 :

We handle the distribution and sales of MOD54's in most world markets so I must declare an interest, but they are really good, especially if you are going to be processing lots of sheet.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Nige · Feb 10, 2015

I do taco's but only do 2 max at any one time.

Neal · Feb 10, 2015

Dear muzzatron,

Consider using trays. For 4x5, Paterson 5x7 trays will work nicely but you can use any size trays. Finally, putting your location in your profile will often help as there might be a source near you that you can be pointed to.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Terry Christian · Feb 10, 2015

I do taco method in a standard two-reel Paterson, but with elastic hair bands instead of rubber ones: they allow the chemicals to flow through, so you don't get underfixed areas under the bands. I can do four sheets in a tank at the same time. I've tried six, but the pressure of the sheets against each other has caused uneven results with that many.

peter k. · Feb 10, 2015

I used the Taco method, and yes sometimes you can get uneven development, it works best with a developer like HC-110 that can be extended to a longer time duration. As in dilution H instead of B.
But this is not the point in my opinion, ... try it, and see if you like the concept and size of 4x5 film, the camera, and shooting it.
From there many possibilities can open up...
Several years ago I made two ABS 1.5" daylight tanks to develop a single sheet of film in, and still use them when doing some testing.

Rick A · Feb 10, 2015

muzzatron said:
Hi,
I have been shooting some 4x5 (Ilford 125) on my Ilford pinhole and want to develop my own film. But I only have a 35mm tank.

Has anyone successfully developed 4x5 in a 35mm tank? I did see a video of a guy doing what he called 'The Taco Method' but am a bit nervous about trying it.

The answer is yes, however it cannot be done in a single or double stainless tank. It works in double plastic tanks, but in my experience(as with Terry), four sheets maximum works fine.

Paul Howell · Feb 10, 2015

Michael W said:
I've done it many times in a standard Paterson two reel tank, with great results. That is one sheet at a time, curved around the inner wall. Of course make sure the emulsion side faces in. It does use a lot of chemistry as it needs about 800ml to fill the tank and cover the sheet. I don't like the taco method - tried a few times and always got scratches or uneven development on some sheets.

I have used my Peterson Tank, one sheet, but as the Peterson seals well no leaks I laid the tank on it's side and rolled it I think I used about 200mm of chemistry. Another option is a color paper drum, in an 8X10 you can fit 2 to 4 depending in the make of the drum.

nsurit · Feb 10, 2015

If you have a darkroom and are not doing much 4X5, use trays. If you are going to do a bunch, look at getting a Mod 54. Having done both either works fine. Bill Barber

Ko.Fe. · Feb 10, 2015

Interesting thread!

I'll try tray method next time.

Michael W said:
I've done it many times in a standard Paterson two reel tank, with great results. That is one sheet at a time, curved around the inner wall. Of course make sure the emulsion side faces in. It does use a lot of chemistry as it needs about 800ml to fill the tank and cover the sheet. I don't like the taco method - tried a few times and always got scratches or uneven development on some sheets.

Same with me and elastic hair bands makes no difference.

rjbuzzclick · Feb 10, 2015

I use Beseler and Unicolor print drums on a motor base for up to 4 4x5 sheets per tank. Only uses about 200ml of chemestry too.

Chris G · Feb 10, 2015

Terry Christian said:
I do taco method in a standard two-reel Paterson, but with elastic hair bands instead of rubber ones: they allow the chemicals to flow through, so you don't get underfixed areas under the bands. I can do four sheets in a tank at the same time. I've tried six, but the pressure of the sheets against each other has caused uneven results with that many.

This is wrong/bad information. Emulsion side should be facing inside the taco... There is nothing to fix on the other side... just use small elastic bands... emulsion side will never be touching anything but developer / fixer.

Rick A · Feb 10, 2015

Chris G said:
This is wrong/bad information. Emulsion side should be facing inside the taco... There is nothing to fix on the other side... just use small elastic bands... emulsion side will never be touching anything but developer / fixer.

True, but when you remove the rubber bands there is a stripe on the base side. It is easily removed by soaking in fixer for a short time. Terry using hair bands eliminates this. The band is most likely AH layer, decidedly not unfixed emulsion. When I develop using taco method, after fixing I pour the fixer into a tray and remove the bands and place the negatives in the tray with the fixer for another minute to eliminate the effect.

peter k. · Feb 10, 2015

After about two and half minutes in fixer, open up, I reset the bands.. on the neg, close, and finish the fixing.

Newt_on_Swings · Feb 10, 2015

With cloth covered bands do you toss them after every use? I feel there could be cross contamination if you did reuse them. I used the tiny black bands that come in a huge pack from the dollar store and toss them after. When stretched there they are very thin.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 10, 2015

Here's another reusable and permanent possibility, but with a little extra DIY effort required...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(Note that the correct post is #42, not #43, which seems to be the one displaying for me.)
(Also note that the product links within the above post are now broken, see below.)

I made up a couple dozen of these one afternoon and have used them on-and-off for years. Because of the mesh design the solutions are able to fully reach and remove the anti-halation dye from the back side, as the sheets never touch the side wall of the tank and there are no rubber bands.

And because each sheet is completed enclosed, there is no damage from loose sheets crashing into each other. They are easily loaded in darkness and three will fit snugly into a 2-reel 120-size stainless steel tank.

For your DIY efforts you will get perfectly evenly developed sheets right out to the edges, when using standard inversion agitation, every single time.

However, I should also mention that another APUG member did contact me saying he had noticed fine scratches on the base side of his sheets when using these cages. Presumably that would mean that the ABS plastic is harder than the film base, and so leaves marks.

I have not seen these marks on my negatives, but it needs to be passed along as a possible issue anyway.

Ken

Updated product links that will eventually break as well:

Frost-King Gutter Guard
Thomas & Betts SF100-18X ties

peter k. · Feb 10, 2015

Ken .. thanks.. lovely idea.. and that will work for me, in my couple of 1.5 ABS single shot negative daylight tanks I made.
With the 3x4 negs, I have no problem, but with a 4x5, that extra 3/4" it really wraps the back of the negative hard against the wall of the ABS.
For these, I will just cut a sleeve, and put it in the 'hole' and then curl the negative inside of that... no need for rubber bands in this arrangement.

muzzatron · Feb 11, 2015

The MOD54 looks like a great idea. I don't have the money right now, so will give the TACO a try. Though, I think my tank is just a double tank so may only be able to do one 4x5.

Terry Christian · Feb 11, 2015

Chris G said:
This is wrong/bad information. Emulsion side should be facing inside the taco... There is nothing to fix on the other side... just use small elastic bands... emulsion side will never be touching anything but developer / fixer.

Just to clarify: I do load the sheets emulsion in. While the uneven areas only consist of the AH layer, I'd rather not do as Rick does, so most of the way through fixing I move the bands a little to eliminate marks.

I rinse the hair bands well afterward and I haven't had any issues from contamination.

M Carter · Feb 11, 2015

Am I missing something here? When 4x5 tanks start at under $20?

I did some 4x5 E6 years ago and a daylight tank with holder for 6 sheets was pretty cheap. Ebay has plenty of tanks (OK, many without lids!) and Adorama & B&H have a good selection.

Is there a reason not to use a tank?

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 11, 2015

Larger solution volume requirements per unit square of film surface? Both logistically, especially if one mixes from scratch, and for expense, which is always a valid concern for many?

Ken

Moopheus · Feb 11, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Larger solution volume requirements per unit square of film surface? Both logistically, especially if one mixes from scratch, and for expense, which is always a valid concern for many?

Ken

Rotary tanks are not too bad in that regard, though of course are kind of a drag without a motor base to do the work for you. Fortunately, those are cheap on ebay.

MattKing · Feb 11, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
Larger solution volume requirements per unit square of film surface? Both logistically, especially if one mixes from scratch, and for expense, which is always a valid concern for many?

Ken

Using replenished chemicals will solve this problem.

4x5 Film in 35mm tank

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