4x5 Film Holders

[mitrajoon]

I've just acquired a Wista SP. It came with everything except film holders. I've seen them listed on EBay from $6 to $90. I'm hoping someone can advise me on what to look for, what to avoid or any other tips.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Almost any 4x5" sheet film holders will fit your camera, all are pretty much the same in that they all hold a sheet of film, some however are slightly better to use than others.

In Way beyond Monochrome by Ralph Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse, pages 108 - 110 there is a brief but excellent description of how to check for critical focusing with your film holder and your ground glass using a simple steel rule, toothpick and bull dog clip. It is also in their second edition but on pages 146 - 147 with the same pictures and probably the same text.

I myself have picked up many and various 4x5" film holders and find all work well, but some are just nicer to work with.

The best and nicest I have to work with are a couple of Toyo units, one is pictured.

The various Lisco units I have are all good, but I do find that the easiest ones to work with and with that have the least possibility of making errors with, are their MarkII version. This is the one with the elongated top on their slides. Not only are these easier to pull in and push in with thick gloves on, they also require the pushing of the little white button (by hand) to remove the dark slide. This little button, if not pushed in, will not allow the dark slide to be pulled out. When you insert one of these film holders into your camera back, unless the holder is correctly inserted, that little white button is not pushed in and you cannot pull the slide out.

This may not sound like a big deal, but every now and then it is quite possible to insert a film holder either not quite all the way in, or, depending upon the actual construction of your camera back, you can push a little too far. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but, if the film holder is not seated correctly, when you pull the dark slide there is an extremely good chance of getting a light leak between the film holder and the camera back. These film holders do have a slight drawback, they physically take more room than the other film holders I have. Not often an issue, but if I am travelling super tight, space wise, I leave these holders home.

The other Lisco units are great with the metal topped ones being the oldest I know of, but still work very well.

Things to watch out for are the little bent metal tabs missing, these are required to hold the dark slides in. The tape that acts as a hinge for the bottom flap shouldn't have any cracks in it, otherwise it needs to be replaced. I am holding a flap back, you can see that there are no breaks in this hinge.

Having a bent or kinked dark slide can be disastrous, I have a kink on a Toyo dark slide after I dropped the loaded holder onto the point of a rock. The resultant kink pulled the slide in and so far I haven't been able to eliminate that kink by using a ball pean hammer on an anvil.

Mick.

 

[michaelorr]

Wow, great question and Mick i am glad you responded, gloves being a big deal for me and all i have right now are second-hand 4x5 holders. And seating has dogged me from time to time, if i am not careful. Thanks, both!

 

[mitrajoon]

That's great advice on the Lisco Mark II. Problem is when buying over the net it's hard to know exactly what you are getting. The good news is I now have some questions to ask before purchasing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Besides the APUG Classifieds check out the Large Format Photography Forum "For Sale/Wanted" section for well described equipment being sold by large format camera users.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?27-For-Sale-Wanted

 

[mitrajoon]

Yep, checking the FS Forum in both places. I really only need a couple. I'm a complete novice in this with a limited budget so just want to be sure whatever I buy is correct.

 

[Alan9940]

Another possibility is a Grafmatic Holder. If you buy carefully, these holders can be had for little money in good condition. Make sure the septums aren't bent and you've got 6 shots at the tip-o-da-fingers.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Grafmatics: http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

 

[Doremus Scudder]

There are lots of used holders on the various fora and auction sites. Look for good-condition Fidelity, Lisco or Riteway holders for the best deals (Toyo holders are great but priced much higher). Keep looking for lots of 5-10 holders from private parties, not ones or twos, which are priced more expensively by the dealers/sellers. I have about 75 holders and have paid an average of $5/holder.

If you buy anything used, it's a good idea to check it out before using it. In the case of holders, check for damage, especially cracks in the sides that can leak light, smoothly-operating and correctly seating darkslide, dents and dings, etc. Look at the light traps from above and below with the slides removed and a bright light source held on the other side. Don't use new-to-you holders for critical work till you've tested them, either by shooting film or using paper as a check for leaks.

Best,

Doremus

 

[mitrajoon]

Doremus,

I can check them out before using, but unfortunately not before buying.

Just curious as to why you have so many? Of course, I haven't even tried out my 4x5 yet, but I'm thinking, based on my MF experience, that I would probably never take more than 4-6 images (2-3 holders) at a time.

Perhaps you have a couple you could spare.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

There are lots of used holders on the various fora and auction sites. Look for good-condition Fidelity, Lisco or Riteway holders for the best deals (Toyo holders are great but priced much higher). Keep looking for lots of 5-10 holders from private parties, not ones or twos, which are priced more expensively by the dealers/sellers. I have about 75 holders and have paid an average of $5/holder.

If you buy anything used, it's a good idea to check it out before using it. In the case of holders, check for damage, especially cracks in the sides that can leak light, smoothly-operating and correctly seating darkslide, dents and dings, etc. Look at the light traps from above and below with the slides removed and a bright light source held on the other side. Don't use new-to-you holders for critical work till you've tested them, either by shooting film or using paper as a check for leaks.

Best,

Doremus

Ihad myself a fixturemade to also check for planeness on used holders as a bent holder will lead to unsharp images

 

[mitrajoon]

Lisco Regal II vs Fidelity Elite

From what some of you said these are made by the same company and maybe identical except the lisco may have an idiot proof safeguard. A person is selling these for a friend and knows nothing about them. He thinks the Fidelity are newer.

 

[Roger Cole]

That's great advice on the Lisco Mark II. Problem is when buying over the net it's hard to know exactly what you are getting. The good news is I now have some questions to ask before purchasing.

Riteway is a brand that works like that. I'm not sure if they are the same but all mine are the button style and I'm pretty sure all say Riteway. They aren't supposed to work with Linhof but they do with my Tech III (sometimes with a bit of wiggling to get the button to press in by the back.)

 

[Roger Cole]

Here's one of my Riteways, same basic design. Note that one thing some people do NOT like about this style is that, because of the style of the handle on the slides, they will NOT fit into a quart ziplock. This one is laying on a 6x9 anti-static bag. Someone on the Large Format Photography Forum a few years back got together a bulk order and I ordered a bunch of these that I store my holders in. They fit fine in the 6x9s.

 

[Wayne]

Welcome to the SP club.

 

[Dr. no]

Why so many? There are many reasons...

Yankee tanks hold 12 frames

When traveling to shoot it's nice not to have to reload film

When shooting with a model it's nice not to have to reload film

Often use 2-5 types of film (speeds, colour print/slide, IR, "experimental" vintage film)

3-4 frames? Really?

 

[Dr Croubie]

in my lot of holders, there are generally 2 types with regards to how the 'end flap' works.
The first older type, mostly wooden, have a simple diagonal cut that sits together when the darkslide is inserted fully.
The second newer type, mostly plastic, have a more complicated tongue/groove thingy going on.

The difference is important, because in these older holders the only thing stopping the light from hitting the film is the tape at the back. Get a hole in that tape (and you will, with enough usage, because that's where it's basically a 'hinge') and you're getting light all over your film.
The second type are more foolproof, even when the tape degrades there's the tongue/groove that stops light getting through.
I've shot film in both types of holders with degraded tape, and only the first type shows up leaks on the film.

The second type are newer, plastic, and generally a bit more expensive.
The ones with the button 'push to remove darkslide' are probably a bit more again. I don't exclusively look for that type over other plastic ones, but they're good nonetheless (at least you know they're newer in general, so more chance of being in better condition than older ones).
But once you've wasted even one sheet of colour film to a light leak, you're better off financially to buy the plastic ones (Fidelity, Lisco, Riteway and Toyo are very good).

 

[Mick Fagan]

I would suggest having two film holders for four sheets of film is perfect, I often go out with just four sheets. When going out with an undecided shooting itinerary, I invariably take four holders with 4 sheets of FP4+ and 4 sheets of HP5+/Bergger 400. This gives me plenty of possibilities.

When travelling long term, which I did last year, I carried 6 film holders, with 6 sheets of slow film and 6 sheets of fast film. Then when they were used up, or close to it, I changed exposed sheets into old film boxes and re-loaded using a changing tent.

I have once used my then total of 18 film holders for 36 sheets of film, as well as two Grafmatic film holders with 6 in each, for a total of 48 sheets of film on a shoot with a model and various clothing changes in a two hour session which stretched to nearly three hours. But this is certainly the exception to my normal shooting with sheet film.

Someone mentioned Grafmatic backs as they hold six sheets of film and are space savers, well they are and they aren't. A single Grafmatic film holder is approximately the same space size as two normal film holders, so you do get two more sheets, but they are and can be fiddly and their septums (the things that actually hold the individual sheets of film) can be a bit dodgy after literally decades of sometimes very hard use in a commercial environment. I really suggest you think about them at a later date if you think you really need to pack the maximum amount of film (6 sheets) into the smallest space.

Mick.

 

[mitrajoon]

Dr No,

Thanks for the info. You are clearly a professional and advanced LF user! I'm a "pre-newbie" as I haven't actually used my 4x5 yet. I appreciate your advice and will likely get a few more holders than originally planned. I am looking at a set of 5 either Lisco Regal II or Fidelity Elite (apparently "less used"/newer than the Lisco). Would like to make a decision today. Your POV is appreciated.

Dr C & Mike: Very helpful. Pls see my note above re my current opportunity, Lisco Regal II or Fidelity Elite.

Wayne: Thxs. I hope I can figure it out.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Doremus,

I can check them out before using, but unfortunately not before buying.

Just curious as to why you have so many? ...

mitrajoon,

At least you can get a photo of the holders from your seller. Age isn't as important as condition as long as the holders are all the same "generation," i.e., plastic, not wood. If you get a good enough deal, discarding a defective holder or two out of the bunch is not an issue.

FWIW, I hate the newer holders with the buttons to lock the darkslide in. They are fiddly, don't work in some cameras and, as mentioned, don't fit in quart-size Ziploc bags, which I use (each holder gets a clean Ziploc when loaded).

Why so many? I often go on road trips (I call them photo safaris) for weeks at a time. I take a cooler with 50 holders (100 sheets) of two B&W films. I shoot them in order and only have to reload once or twice a month that way, if at all. I can't imagine having to reload once or twice a day in a dusty changing bag...

Best,

Doremus

 

[mitrajoon]

Thanks, I guess I'll order the Fidelity Elite as they are available now, or at least the last time I looked.

 

[Alan Gales]

I bought all my film holders used. For 4x5 I own Toyos and a few old Riteways. My 8x10 holders are Fidelity Elites. If I was buying new I'd buy Toyos but there is nothing wrong with Fidelity holders. If you like wood the Chamonix holders are said to be real nice.

If you buy used there are plenty in really nice shape for not much money. I'd let price and condition be your guide over brand.

 

[mitrajoon]

I ended up buying 5 Fidelity Elites for $63 including shipping. More than I wanted to pay, but I have this beautiful camera sitting on my desk....

Thanks everyone for all your help. If any of you live in south FL and have time to show me the ropes, drop me a PM.