4x5 Field Camera: Wood or Metal?

Yamaotoko · Dec 25, 2010

Ian Grant said:
A wooden camera has one other advantage - a lot more people will stop and talk to you when your out using it

Ian

...personally, that is one huuuge disadvantage! I'm not very fond of people in general, much less so when I'm out with a camera trying to get away from them!

TareqPhoto · Dec 25, 2010

Let's say from those 6 models, which one will you go for if you want good price and available movements? (Price i mean something less than $3000 or in range of $500-3000)

Ebony
Shen Hao
Wista
Tachihara
Chamonix
Toyo-view

mfratt · Dec 25, 2010

SteveR said:
...personally, that is one huuuge disadvantage! I'm not very fond of people in general, much less so when I'm out with a camera trying to get away from them!

I agree. People coming up and asking a million questions is usually annoying. If I don't want to talk I just give polite but overly concise answers to their questions. Though it can be nice to have someone to chat with at night during a 20 minute exposure. I usually just like being in my own space though.

I like the price of that Chamomix. How does it compare to a wista or. Lotus?

jp498 · Dec 25, 2010

I've met some very interesting people as a result of using a visibly old camera in public. The first person stories of old related to photography are often interesting. I'll take a few boring/curious conversations along with the really interesting first person history. It's sort of the same deal with old cars.

I think I'm a better listener than talker, and many strangers are thrilled to find a listener.

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2010

mfratt said:
I agree. People coming up and asking a million questions is usually annoying.

However, some of these conversions have ended up with people giving me cameras and lenses that they were not using!

bobwysiwyg · Dec 25, 2010

.. and you never know, such conversations might make the questioner rekindle their interest in going back to film. [thinks wishfully ]

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2010

That too. Post #30 is the more common result than Post #29.

mfratt · Dec 25, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
However, some of these conversions have ended up with people giving me cameras and lenses that they were not using!

Hmm. In that case maybe I should go out shooting when theres actually people around and not at 3am like I usually do.

Then again, the people you encounter in the city at 3am are usually the most entertaining. A guy a few nights ago who was either stoned or drunk (probably both) could not comprehend that my camera was NOT a video camera, and went on and on about how he wants to shoot (video) of street scenes at night for Adult Swim commercials.

Another guy was talking to me during a 17 minute exposure about how the area we were in was a known hiding place for gay rapists which made me a little frightened and quickly got out of these after my exposure was through.

mfratt · Dec 25, 2010

But before this thread gets too off track, can anyone speak to the quality of the Chamonix against a pricier camera? I do like the Lotus a lot from what I see, buts its also $3000...

Ian Grant · Dec 25, 2010

I've been out shooting with a couple of Chamonix owners and they seem to be excellent cameras, both are very happy with theirs. They aren't APUG members unfortunately.

Ian

TareqPhoto · Dec 25, 2010

And my question is still waiting the answer

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
However, some of these conversions have ended up with people giving me cameras and lenses that they were not using!

For the record, since March 2010 while I was using Hasselblads, 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic and 4x5 Graflex Model D:

Canon EOS 3 body
Pentax Super Program with Pentax-A 50mm fl1.7 and Pentax-A 50mm f/2.8 Macro
Pentax ME Super with two zoom lenses, two Pentax strobes, Vivitar 283 strobe, Pentax ME power winder, Pentax data back, a large stack of filters, camera bag
Tessina Auto 35 L and two film cartridges
Polaroid 420

'nuff said.

Steve

Yamaotoko · Dec 25, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
And my question is still waiting the answer

If you're really anxious for an answer, perhaps a new thread might be your best bet

TareqPhoto · Dec 25, 2010

SteveR said:
If you're really anxious for an answer, perhaps a new thread might be your best bet

And you sure that a new thread will give me an answer? I feel all the answer i will get is to buy whatever, and the worse will be that many members will recommend me each of them so going in circle or no decision.

SMBooth · Dec 25, 2010

TareqPhoto said:
And you sure that a new thread will give me an answer? I feel all the answer i will get is to buy whatever, and the worse will be that many members will recommend me each of them so going in circle or no decision.

Everybody will give you a different answer because everybody has different needs. Perhaps making a list of thing you need and require will help narrow the list.
I have a old Wista it only takes lens to 300mm and the bellows are fixed making it hard to use anything wider the 90mm. I like the look of the Ebony and although not on your list the Walker XL.
All 4x5 cameras are good and will take 4x5 photos. There just different in some respects

Some section criteria I would use.
Weight
Bellows length
Portability
Designed len use

TareqPhoto · Dec 25, 2010

Let's say i will take out Toya, Wista, Chamonix, so i am mostly eye'd on the other three, mostly the Ebony and Tachihara, but Ebony is a bit expensive and i can buy only the body, the other two [Shen-Hao, Tachi] i can get the kit or complete in less than one Ebony body, but really i like the Ebony design a lot.

Weight is not an issue because i will use tripod always and no asking to hand hold, bellow length i think i should make that into consideration maybe i need long one sometimes, portability i don't know that but if that is depend on the weight then as i said that i will use tripod all the time, and in fact those models above i mentioned i found or will choose that body with about 2-3kg so the whole system many not be above 4-5kg, my digital Canon many times go above 3-4kg, and about designed len use i really don't know that and i hope that make a change in my choice if i know it more.

mfratt · Dec 25, 2010

What would you folk say about a Graflex camera for someone looking for an all-around field camera which adds the ability to be handheld?

Paul Sorensen · Dec 25, 2010

Well, here is my opinion, and my reasoning. I am sure that not everyone will agree with me but at least there are lots around here who do.

I used to own a Shen Hao until I sold it for financial reasons. When I am able to, I expect I will get another. The reasons are:

1. Cost. The lower cost will free up funds for lenses, accessories, etc.
2. Flexibility. It has lots of movements and longer bellows than most cameras in its class.
3. Reliability and ruggedness. It is really well built.

The down side is that it is really heavy for a wood camera, about a pound heavier than the Tachihara, if I recall correctly. That is not a huge issue to me, but it is a bit of an issue.

The things that I could get for more money are for me luxuries that I would rather not spend my money on at this time. If I was in a position where the money saved on the camera was not important to me, I might consider an Ebony or one of the more exotic cameras.

Vaughn · Dec 25, 2010

mfratt said:
What would you folk say about a Graflex camera for someone looking for an all-around field camera which adds the ability to be handheld?

I would say look at the Busch Press cameras, also -- I believe the movements are better. Or perhaps a Super Graphic.

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2010

mfratt said:
What would you folk say about a Graflex camera for someone looking for an all-around field camera which adds the ability to be handheld?

A Graphic, which is a press camera, definitely yes.

A Graflex, which is a single lens reflex, definitely can be hand held but does not handle the same way as a Graphic.

Different cameras with overlapping purposes.

Steve

mfratt · Dec 25, 2010

Sirius Glass said:
A Graphic, which is a press camera, definitely yes.

A Graflex, which is a single lens reflex, definitely can be hand held but does not handle the same way as a Graphic.

Different cameras with overlapping purposes.

Steve

Didn't Graphlex make the Graphics?

Vaughn · Dec 26, 2010

I had forgotten about the Graflex SLR 4x5. Not a very practical camera for landscapes. One could not set it up very high on a pod and still see through it. Instead you would find places to climb up on. As far as appearing in public, it would probably help to look a little like Dorothea.

I have a Graflex 22 (a 6x6 TLR), and a Graflex (actually probably "Graphic") 35 (35mm rangefinder with "Pushbutton Focusing"), an older Speed Graphic somewhere, I sold a Graflex Rollback, hard to keep track!

The Graflex SLR and the Speed Graphic have focal plane shutters, the advantage being one can use less expensive barrel lenses (no shutters). The Crown Graphic does not have the built in shutter and is lighter. The only movements the Crown and Speed have is front tilt (and you have to drop the front bed to get forward tilt.)

But if one finds a Crown or Speed Graphic at a decent price, one could try it out for awhile, then if desired, resold to buy a field camera without losing much value.

I photograph in the forest a lot. It requires tons of well-placed depth of field, so its nice to have a lot of flexibility of a field camera (as opposed to a press camera) when working with the image on the GG. To save weight and to stiffen the camera, I can live without back shift and back rise/fall.

Vaughn

mfratt · Dec 26, 2010

I'd never realized that Graphlex made so many cameras. I knew about the press cameras, obviously, and I'd seen the reflex 4x5 once (the guy I got my monorail from had one he was showing me. He was moving to digital so I was kinna hoping he'd give it to me with the Linhof, but no dice... I didn't press him for it though).

Anyway, as for Graphics, I'd lean to the Crown. I don't think I'd often enough use the focal plane shutter, and it would only add weight and complexity for me. Other than that, I have mixed feelings on the Graphics for my style of shooting. I like to have lots of control, so I'm afraid I'll find the movements too limiting. I'm also a sucker for precise, well engineered equipment. I've never used one, but I feel the mass-production American nature of the Graphic excludes it from that category. But the Graphic also attractive because (a) its cheap (b) its a rugged workhorse (c) its hand holdable - something I've never even considered the possibilities of on 4x5 and (d) more emotional than logical, but its a photographic legend, which is just really cool.

I emailed Chamonix about a 4x5. Apparently they're sold out of their current stock, but they have another batch coming through this April and are taking names for a waitlist, and they are still making them in teak (their website said that after the first batch, they'd be switching to maple).

So heres where my chaotic mind is settling down...
- Get a Graphic for now - for hiking or traveling. Deal with the lack of camera movements and love it for its hand-holdability.
- Lug out my monorail (which is do-able, I carry it around in a large backpack now) when I know I'll want more control
- Buy a Chamonix 4x5 in April
- Then decide that I really want to shoot 8x10 and do it all over again

Logical? Yes?

TareqPhoto · Dec 26, 2010

mfratt said:
I'd never realized that Graphlex made so many cameras. I knew about the press cameras, obviously, and I'd seen the reflex 4x5 once (the guy I got my monorail from had one he was showing me. He was moving to digital so I was kinna hoping he'd give it to me with the Linhof, but no dice... I didn't press him for it though).

Anyway, as for Graphics, I'd lean to the Crown. I don't think I'd often enough use the focal plane shutter, and it would only add weight and complexity for me. Other than that, I have mixed feelings on the Graphics for my style of shooting. I like to have lots of control, so I'm afraid I'll find the movements too limiting. I'm also a sucker for precise, well engineered equipment. I've never used one, but I feel the mass-production American nature of the Graphic excludes it from that category. But the Graphic also attractive because (a) its cheap (b) its a rugged workhorse (c) its hand holdable - something I've never even considered the possibilities of on 4x5 and (d) more emotional than logical, but its a photographic legend, which is just really cool.

I emailed Chamonix about a 4x5. Apparently they're sold out of their current stock, but they have another batch coming through this April and are taking names for a waitlist, and they are still making them in teak (their website said that after the first batch, they'd be switching to maple).

So heres where my chaotic mind is settling down...
- Get a Graphic for now - for hiking or traveling. Deal with the lack of camera movements and love it for its hand-holdability.
- Lug out my monorail (which is do-able, I carry it around in a large backpack now) when I know I'll want more control
- Buy a Chamonix 4x5 in April
- Then decide that I really want to shoot 8x10 and do it all over again

Logical? Yes?

I've got Crown Graphic about 2 days ago, it came with a lens, i had Speed Graphic Pacemaker without a lens, so i can use this one on both even it is not a great one, but at least to start.

Now i am looking at a 4x5 camera with more movements, Ebony, Shen-Hao and Tachihara are my main top priority, will read more and call for availability and see which i can get as soon as possible.

Later maybe next year after i use my press cameras and if i will get that 4x5 with more movements i can decide if i want to go with 8x10, i really dream about 8x10 but before i do i have to give 4x5 a test and see the results, but in all cases if i can afford it i will go with 8x10 sooner or later to compliment my LF, then i never look back.

Good luck to all of us.

Matus Kalisky · Dec 26, 2010

For what it is worth here is my experience with Tachihara 4x5. Please not that I never owned or event handled a different one, so I am not really able to make some meaningful comparisons.

I got the Tachihara because of of its rather low price (used) and weight. The main intention was to use it (apart from others) for one day longer trips in mountains, so the weight was important to me. The camera is of relatively recent make (2003).

I use the camera with following lenses: 75, 125, 240, 400 (tele-design). 75 can be focused to infinity without recessed lens board, but you get nearly no movements. Using recessed lens board helps only little - the mounting hole is off-center (downwards) so you effectively use a bit of rise movements. With my lens (Grandagon N 75/4.5) the rear diameter of the lens is too large and does not allow to mount the recessed board upside-down. I even tried to use a recessed board where the recession was off-center - unfortunately it did not ft the hole in the front standard. In general the movements with 75 lens are OK for landscape, but too limited for architecture. What is nice - when shooting with wide lenses one can shift the rear standard to the from by about 5 cm - enough to get the camera bed out of the image even in vertical shots.

The other lenses are fine, the 400 requires about 240 mm of bellows draw. As the lens is rather heavy (500g) one needs to be careful - the camera looses some of its stability and it is easy to introduce vibrations. With the 240 lens (light - Fuji A 240/9) this problem is much less (not an issue, actually).

As you are now used to monorail camera - you may overlook that many field cameras do not offer rear standard focusing - what is not an issue with landscape photography, but becomes inconvenient with close-ups.

In general the camera is easy to use, acceptably stable. Personally I would like more accurate movements (in particular tilts) as I tend towards architecture photography lately, but for the landscape usage one does not need more.

One disadvantage for me - when shooting in public people often come by as they are attracted by that "cute old camera". I would prefer a more "technical looking" one in such instances. I prefer to be mistaken for a professional photographer than for strange dude with antique camera

4x5 Field Camera: Wood or Metal?

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