4x5 devoloping

kaantuncel · Dec 14, 2013

I don't have any experience with this (yet), but I have been thinking about this and I thought I would share my idea.

The problem I have is that my enlarger can only stretch up to medium format at most, and my scanner only to 35mm. So my idea was to make contact prints and then scan them in. I am not sure what the quality would be (I am sure they would be of lower quality than a pure scan) but it is probably the cheapest way of doing it for me.

If you do not care as much about bleeding edge quality, and already have a 4x5, you could probably give this a try without it costing you anything (except developing of course).

EDIT:

Just found this website on Google, apparently these photos are contact prints (although from 8x10). All I will say is that the quality is more than good enough for me!
SOURCE: http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00Dxpk

CatLABS · Dec 16, 2013

4X5 enlargers are a dime a dozen, or in many cases they are 100% free!

jcc · Dec 17, 2013

I'm confused as to what you mean by "stretch up to medium format". You mean the height, or the film holder?

And if there are any of these free 4x5 enlargers laying around, I'd sure like to get my hands on one.

kintatsu · Dec 17, 2013

jcc said:
And if there are any of these free 4x5 enlargers laying around, I'd sure like to get my hands on one.

That makes 2 of us!

Terry Christian · Dec 17, 2013

jcc said:
And if there are any of these free 4x5 enlargers laying around, I'd sure like to get my hands on one.

I'm in Memphis and actually have a Beseler MCRX to give away to a good home. It could use some cleaning up and TLC, but it works just fine.

BradS · Dec 17, 2013

I too have a spare 4x5 enlarger, an older Omega D2, in storage that I'd happily give to somebody who would use it. I bought a newer Omega D2-V some years ago and the old one has been in storage since.

As for how to develop 4x5 film, I recommend doing them one at a time in the Paterson system 4 tank - no hair toys needed - just make sure to use the center column and put the film in the tank emulsion side in. Save and search for a Jobo expert drum and a unicolor motor base..it is very well worth the expense.

donkee · Dec 17, 2013

I picked up my Beseler 45MXT from the Salvation Army for $30.00. Came with negative carriers, 50mm lens, and a paper safe. It needs a good cleaning, but other than that is was a steal. Deals are to be had if you keep your eyes open..

For 4x5 developing I use the Yankee tank. Most people seem to hate them but mine works great for me. Maybe I am doing it wrong enough to be right....

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/4945-Yankee-Adjustable-4x5-Cut-film-Developing-Tank

kintatsu · Dec 17, 2013

BradS said:
I too have a spare 4x5 enlarger, an older Omega D2, in storage that I'd happily give to somebody who would use it. I bought a newer Omega D2-V some years ago and the old one has been in storage since.

Terry Christian said:
I'm in Memphis and actually have a Beseler MCRX to give away to a good home. It could use some cleaning up and TLC, but it works just fine.

You guys are awesome to make such offers. I'm sure someone will be grateful for the chance. I'm located in Germany, so it's not for me. I hope someone will give them a great home and lots of use!

donkee said:
I picked up my Beseler 45MXT from the Salvation Army for $30.00. Came with negative carriers, 50mm lens, and a paper safe. It needs a good cleaning, but other than that is was a steal. Deals are to be had if you keep your eyes open..

I'm looking around at our flea markets and thrift shops. Apparently there wasn't much large format enlarging done by private folks in our area. It seems there wasn't a lot of large format in general, at least in the last 30 years or so. There's still some old timers in business, and a couple shops in the bigger cities where something may crop up, so there's always hope!

Thanks for the advice and offers, whoever they're intended for, it shows what a great group APUG is!

jcc · Dec 17, 2013

BradS said:
I too have a spare 4x5 enlarger, an older Omega D2, in storage that I'd happily give to somebody who would use it. I bought a newer Omega D2-V some years ago and the old one has been in storage since.

I may take you up on that offer!

CatLABS · Dec 17, 2013

Before our move to Chicago we left 5-6 4X5 enlargers and gear for curb pickup, check your local craigslist and you will find many many of those just aching not to get dumped in the recycling....

jerrybro · Dec 17, 2013

CatLABS said:
Before our move to Chicago we left 5-6 4X5 enlargers and gear for curb pickup, check your local craigslist and you will find many many of those just aching not to get dumped in the recycling....

Chicago! You moved to someplace colder than Boston!

Mainecoonmaniac · Dec 17, 2013

You can also use a Beseler 8x10 print drum and an agitator base. You can process (4) 4x5 sheets. It uses very little chemistry. You have to pre-wet your film first.

Blooze · Dec 29, 2013

CatLABS said:
Before our move to Chicago we left 5-6 4X5 enlargers and gear for curb pickup, check your local craigslist and you will find many many of those just aching not to get dumped in the recycling....

I've been kicking around getting into 4x5 and after 6 months of checking the local craigslist have never once seen an enlarger there. We live in the absolute sticks I swear. The closest I've seen enlargers advertised is a 4 hour drive each way and most of the ones for 4x5 or larger they want anywhere from $500-2000 for. Several of the Beseler 23C II's for reasonable prices at any given time which isn't much help, but that's a long way to drive to find out somethings it's junk.

Is it possible to scan a 4x5 contact print and enlarge to have commercially printed? Or would the quality be questionable?

smithdoor · Dec 29, 2013

I have use Yankee tanks since 1973 works great.
I only know one thing some does not like is do not turn them over, and lid can come off. Ther are easy to load and use. I do put a rubber band on the tank so lid does not come off.
Getting a 4x5 enlarger is more luck I found one on craigslist free to pick up. I also gave my old away 15 years think I would never be in the film again. I will say on never come faster that may or may not.

Good luck and happy new year
Dave

donkee said:
I picked up my Beseler 45MXT from the Salvation Army for $30.00. Came with negative carriers, 50mm lens, and a paper safe. It needs a good cleaning, but other than that is was a steal. Deals are to be had if you keep your eyes open..

For 4x5 developing I use the Yankee tank. Most people seem to hate them but mine works great for me. Maybe I am doing it wrong enough to be right....

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/4945-Yankee-Adjustable-4x5-Cut-film-Developing-Tank

CatLABS · Dec 29, 2013

Blooze said:
I've been kicking around getting into 4x5 and after 6 months of checking the local craigslist have never once seen an enlarger there. We live in the absolute sticks I swear. The closest I've seen enlargers advertised is a 4 hour drive each way and most of the ones for 4x5 or larger they want anywhere from $500-2000 for. Several of the Beseler 23C II's for reasonable prices at any given time which isn't much help, but that's a long way to drive to find out somethings it's junk.

You should look at big city CL's. I cant say how many times poeple have tried to make us take their enlargers. Not for money, just so they dont have to deal with taking it out to the dump themselves.... You should just post a wanted ad on the local freecycle or CL and see whats happens. While there are plenty of LF enlargers our there worth a 1500$ or other hefty sum investment, a first, basic 4X5 enlarger shouldent cost much. That said, they often do not include all you will need such as carriers or lenses, but its a good start. Once you decide if you want to move up then you can look at some nicer Ebay listings for nicer enlargers.

Blooze said:
Is it possible to scan a 4x5 contact print and enlarge to have commercially printed? Or would the quality be questionable?

While technically this can be done, and some might subjectively feel its an OK thing, you cannot really scan a contact and make a viable large print out of it.

Blooze · Dec 29, 2013

CatLABS said:
You should look at big city CL's. I cant say how many times poeple have tried to make us take their enlargers. Not for money, just so they dont have to deal with taking it out to the dump themselves.... You should just post a wanted ad on the local freecycle or CL and see whats happens. While there are plenty of LF enlargers our there worth a 1500$ or other hefty sum investment, a first, basic 4X5 enlarger shouldent cost much. That said, they often do not include all you will need such as carriers or lenses, but its a good start. Once you decide if you want to move up then you can look at some nicer Ebay listings for nicer enlargers.

While technically this can be done, and some might subjectively feel its an OK thing, you cannot really scan a contact and make a viable large print out of it.

That's what I kind of assumed about scanning a print.

I live in Amarillo, and the larger cities like Dallas (6 hr drive), OKC (5 hour drive), Albuquerque (4 hour drive), etc....see the pattern. I'm at least 250 miles from anywhere

Newt_on_Swings · Dec 30, 2013

I am also trying to figure out a good 4x5 developing workflow. I tried the taco method twice with mixed results. 6 sheets in long taco (folded on the short edge) in a 3 roll paterson tank, it was a very tight fit, and one of the rubber bands came off in development, one sheet scratched. 4 sheets in the short taco (folded on long edge) didnt want to fit in a 2 roll patterson tank, the funnel didnt want to lock down without contacting the film. So i placed them into the 3 roll. Light agitation resulted in 2 sheets scratched up again. Then I got a few plastic food container trays and did 2 sheets in them, no scratches.

I have a plastic 4x5 yankee tank somewhere from a set of darkroom stuff I got, but I dont remember if I gave it away. I cant see myself spending $65 bucks for the mod 54, or $200 for an orbital. I will probably stick to tray developing for the time being.

kintatsu · Dec 30, 2013

Newt_on_Swings said:
... Then I got a few plastic food container trays and did 2 sheets in them, no scratches...

I use the Ziploc or Glad trays and enjoy developing that way. It's, for me, easier to control things and to achieve the agitation scheme that fits my methods.

jerrybro · Dec 30, 2013

My sheet film developing history went like this.

Chapter 1, trays. Could not get the hang of shuffling negatives without scratching or defects. I know that some people do it this way for decades, and maybe for the larger formats it gets easier, but not for me with 4x5.

Chapter 2, tubes. I made some individual tubes, a la BTZS, from black pvc pipe and caps available at Home Depot. This worked great. Very consistant, easy to control the process with a water bath, but could only do a couple at a time. More than that and I felt like that plate spinner Ed Sullivan used to have on his show.

Chapter 3, Jobo Tank. I picked up a tank and reel and tried doing the manual inversion on a large scale. While that works it does consume a lot of chemistry. I located a Beseler tube roller base and modified it to hold the tank by the magnet on the bottom. I'd clamp this to the counter with a quick clamp to keep it from tipping. This worked great! With this setup and a used densititometer I finally had the consistancy needed to calibrate my film process from beginning to end.

Chapter 4, CPE2+. I found a Jobo processor for cheap and haven't looked back. While chapter 3 was satisfactory, with the processor I got additional tanks and reels and increased my film developing capacity. This has also given me the confidence to try home developing E6 with pleasing results.

Chapter 5, TBD. What comes next? I've considered an additional JOBO, one for color and one for BW. Or a larger heavier duty unit and reserve the CPE for a backup. The problem is that the price of Jobo tanks and reels have gone from high to stupid. It would be hard for me to rationalize buying new at current prices. I think the reality is I now have what I need on the film developing side and need to look into improving skills in composition.

250swb · Dec 30, 2013

I've used three methods in recent years and there are pro's and cons to each.

The Yankee tank is really consistent and easy to use, but it needs a vast amount of developer, not a problem if its full of film, but only two sheets makes it absurd to use. As somebody has mentioned, hold the lid down when you are agitating as the wave can lift it off.

The MOD54, I have the Mk1 version, the Mk2 may be better. But I always had some sort of problem, I'd solve one thing and a new one would crop up. Careful agitation would still result in sheets moving and jumping slots, there were steaks from localised swirl, and the sharp edges can scratch film. It was a big experiment each time I used it.

The Paterson Orbital. This is by far the best in terms of even development, very small volumes of chemicals are needed, ease of loading, freedom from marks on the emulsion, and efficient agitation. The only downside I find is that it can leak light slightly if a bright light is near the drain corner, not a direct leak, probably reflected light bouncing around corners. Ordinary room lighting or a dull day and its fine. Only four 4x5's at a time though.

Steve

CatLABS · Dec 30, 2013

250swb said:
The Paterson Orbital. This is by far the best in terms of even development, very small volumes of chemicals are needed, ease of loading, freedom from marks on the emulsion, and efficient agitation. The only downside I find is that it can leak light slightly if a bright light is near the drain corner, not a direct leak, probably reflected light bouncing around corners. Ordinary room lighting or a dull day and its fine. Only four 4x5's at a time though.

Steve

I guess its time for you too to try Jobo tanks and reels, or better yet and expert drum.

250swb · Dec 31, 2013

CatLABS said:
I guess its time for you too to try Jobo tanks and reels, or better yet and expert drum.

I have thought about it, but not sure why 'its time', could you elaborate? How much developer do they need for four sheets of 4x5? Yes I know, some developers are cheap, but some aren't, and the other advantage if 'less' is the time it takes to get everything up to temperature and the volume of water used for the wash. 500ml or less, like the Paterson Orbital uses, and I'd be very interested in the Jobo drum. But come to think of it I'm not having any problems with the Paterson Orbital, but I guess as a fully paid up member of the 'there is more than one way to crack a nut' club its the 'time' thing that intrigues me, what have I missed that makes the Jobo so much more compelling?

Steve

Regular Rod · Dec 31, 2013

How does one do stand development with Jobo tanks and reels or expert drums? I can see the advantages for colour work but what about monochrome?

RR

CatLABS · Dec 31, 2013

250swb said:
I have thought about it, but not sure why 'its time', could you elaborate? How much developer do they need for four sheets of 4x5? Yes I know, some developers are cheap, but some aren't, and the other advantage if 'less' is the time it takes to get everything up to temperature and the volume of water used for the wash. 500ml or less, like the Paterson Orbital uses, and I'd be very interested in the Jobo drum. But come to think of it I'm not having any problems with the Paterson Orbital, but I guess as a fully paid up member of the 'there is more than one way to crack a nut' club its the 'time' thing that intrigues me, what have I missed that makes the Jobo so much more compelling?

Steve

Well, here are some notions:
1. The Jobo 2520+2509n reel requires a minimum of 270ml for 6 sheets not 4 (Generally less expensive then the orbital)
BTW - ***the 2550 tank with 2X 2509 reels will process 12 sheets, with a minimum required 640ml....
2. Expert drum 3010 requires a min of 330ml for 10 sheets (though you might want use the min chem/sq inch as needed, in most cases at least 500ml, but thats for 10 sheets), generally more expensive then the orbital.
3. Results will surpass anything you know in terms of quality and evenness, or any other term really.
4. NO LIGHT LEAKS - ever, in fact, no leaks of any kind for that matter....
5. For some this might be important: Jobo gear is currently being made and so spare parts or replacement reels etc. are readily available.

Some food for thought

CatLABS · Dec 31, 2013

Regular Rod said:
How does one do stand development with Jobo tanks and reels or expert drums? I can see the advantages for colour work but what about monochrome?

RR

You are not suggesting that stand developing is the only way to process BW films...?

However question this has already been discussed multiple times, in various threads you yourself were posting in...

4x5 devoloping

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency