4x5 daylight development tank

steve simmons · Mar 3, 2004

If you don't want to do tray development of sheet film you might consider using the Polaroid Type 55P/N film. You can process in the field or remove the film from the Polaroid holder and bring it home and process it later. The negative has long been rumored to be Pan-X from Kodak. It is very fine grained and long scale.

steve simmons

Sean · Mar 3, 2004

*thread moderated -admin

sanking · Mar 3, 2004

steve simmons said:
If you don't want to do tray development of sheet film you might consider using the Polaroid Type 55P/N film.
steve simmons

Developing sheet films in trays is a time-proven method that works well for some people. In fact, some of the best photographers I know develop film this way and my hat is off to them for their ability.

But for many others this method is a certain recipe for disaster. I tried it for years and the end result was a fairly high percentage of scratched negatives. And of course having to wear gloves, as any prudent person should do when developing film, made it even worse. And I really dislike having to stand around in the dark shuffling film for long periods of time.

Eventually I switched to rotary processing in tubes of the BTZS type with 5X7 film and in print drums for ULF film. The change for me resulted in a vast improvement in the quality of my negatives because I now never see the scratches that plagued my efforts at sheet processing. And I can do most of the developing with the lights on.

One option for those who like to develop in trays but are concerned about scratches is to put the film in open ended PVC tubes and roll them around in a tray filled with developer. I recall that someone did an article on this type of tray developing some years ago in one of the national magazines but I can not place the reference at this time. You need 1.5" tubes for 4X5 film, 2" for 5X7 and 3" for 8X10. It would be very inexpensive to give this method a try because all you have to do is cut a piece of PVC tubes, which is dirt cheap, into tubes of the right length. Assuming you already have the trays to roll them around in of course. And of course you have to stand around in the dark!!

Sandy King

photomc · Mar 3, 2004

Sandy is correct, there was an article in the past couple of years I think..wish I could remember. It was that or online on the net I read the same thing. If memory serves me correctly, the author used the BTZ tubes, just took the caps off and rolled them in each tray. Can't remember if there was an impact on developing times or not.

I agree Sandy, my hat is off to those that can tray process without damage - since I just started processing 4x5 have not done that much (25 or so sheets), tried a Beseler 8x10 rotary tank with so, so results (could not get a good seal) - Don's home made tubes looked like a possible choice, but this may ticket - cheaper than a slosh tray I was considering.

Sandy, don't you think Don's screen would be an asset with this type of system?

Thanks Sandy.

sanking · Mar 3, 2004

photomc said:
Sandy, don't you think Don's screen would be an asset with this type of system?
quote]

Frankly I have never found such a screen to be necessary when developing in tubes. I just make sure that the back of the film is wet before starting develoment (just pull it in and out of the tube in water) and the anti-halation backing will be removed during fixing or washing.

Just for the record, I remove the film from the tubes and development and fix and wash in trays. If one wanted to do everything with the film in the tubes then the screen might serve some purpose. But for the way I process film the screen just seems an unnecessary complication.

Sandy

DrPhil · Mar 3, 2004

Niko,

The Jobo system is a good system. I know of a few people that simulate the agitation of a Jobo processor with a print drum roller base. You can usually get a used one at a good photo shop. A Jobo uses very similar agitation.

fschifano · Mar 3, 2004

When I was looking for a 4x5 daylight tank, I was in the same predicament as you were. I looked at the Yankee tank and decided that it would be a real PITA, so settled on the HP Combi-Plan tank. I've not been disappointed. you can load it in a changing bag if you must and it does take a bit of practice before you get it right. Occassionally, you'll get two sheets of film stuck together with the predictable uneven development results if you don't load it right. You can use the valves for drain and fill as well. True, these operations do take longer than they would in a roll film tank so it would behoove you to use slower acting developers with this tank. This will insure that you don't get uneven development.

gma · Mar 10, 2004

Has anyone discovered a way to use the Yankee daylight tank successfully? I had the same problem with uneven development in the open skies. I thought it was my faulty technique. It seems that if we use diluted developer and lower temperatures to maximize the developing time we could agitate more and possibly eliminate the problem.

SteveGangi · Mar 10, 2004

I have used the Yankee tank without a problem (SO FAR). My standard developer is D76 diluted 1 to 1. However, I have to say I much prefer using my Unicolor drums and motor base.

sanking · Mar 16, 2004

David A. Goldfarb said:
Everyone I know who has tried it says the Yankee tank is a disaster. Don't do it.

The HP Combi-Plan tank has its admirers, and Jobo is another option in current production. I use an older Nikor stainless steel tank, which is no longer made. Each one of these options seems to work for some people and not for others and has some inherent advantages and disadvantages. Any of them can be loaded in a changing bag or tent of sufficient size.

I would appreciate clarification as to which 4X5 develoing tanks (not Jobo) are currently available new. My understanding is that the only one is the HP Combi-Plan Tank, and that the Yankee and Nikor stainless steel tanks mentioned are only available used. Is this correct?

Sandy King

steve simmons · Mar 16, 2004

I am befuddled by the want to use these tanks. They require the user to develop all the sheets for the same length of time.

I still think tray development is the way to go. I can develop six sheets simultaneously for six different times. 1 scratched negative in 26 years.

steve simmons

fschifano · Mar 16, 2004

I can think of a couple of reasons right off the top of my head. A lot of us are not quite so dextrous and would wind up scratching film. I won't even begin to contemplate developing different sheets for different times in the same batch. Keeping track of all that would hurt my brain too much. Temperature control is easier with a daylight tank. Many of us do not have a sink in the darkroom and use a laundry room or bathroom for developing film.

sanking · Mar 16, 2004

steve simmons said:
I am befuddled by the want to use these tanks. They require the user to develop all the sheets for the same length of time.

I still think tray development is the way to go. I can develop six sheets simultaneously for six different times. 1 scratched negative in 26 years.

steve simmons

Seems like we have been down this road before!

I am not personally interested in the tank system of development for sheet films but I am currently involved in a writing project that involves methods of development and believe that the best approach is to describe thoroughly the various systems of development, with their advantages and disadvantages, and let people make up their own mind as to what is most appropriate for their own requirements.

Sandy King

jovo · Mar 16, 2004

being new to lf work, and knowing nothing in advance, i bought a doran tank which looked well designed on the shelf at B&H. i diligently practiced loading the thing with a sheet of film 'til i was reasonably adept at it and then loaded 10 sheets and with the lights on and a big smile on my face, began to develop the film.

the directions called for 1600 ml of developer which entered the tank at an excruciatingly glacial pace. around 1450 ml into the pour, the developer began sloshing out of the tank on the sides. stupid me....i'd imagined the directions were accurate and hadn't tested the actual capacity. other than the mess i'd created though, things seemed to go fairly well. (however, i was none too pleased with the agitation style of sloshing the tank from side to side.)

the results were a big disappointment. the edges of the film which were restrained by the slots were slightly less well developed than the rest of the negative. i also observed some mottling in areas which should have been even toned.

the upshot is that i decided to be courageous and try open tray processing with some 5x7 trays from adorama. though i felt less than adept on the first try, the negatives emerged from their natal experience without a hitch thank you very much. thanks to some help from some folks on this site who advised me that there'd be no problem with the glow from a timer i couldn't have been more pleased with the outcome.

sanking · Mar 16, 2004

jovo said:
being new to lf work, and knowing nothing in advance, i bought a doran tank which looked well designed on the shelf at B&H. i diligently practiced loading the thing with a sheet of film 'til i was reasonably adept at it and then loaded 10 sheets and with the lights on and a big smile on my face, began to develop the film.

With the Doran do you load the film direrctly into the tank or is loaded onto film racks as with the HP Combi?

Sandy King

jovo · Mar 16, 2004

sanking: the film is loaded directly into the tank via a slotted rectangular bar which one moves across the top of the tank using little nubs as locators over each slot. it's ingenious enough and works fairly well, but requires practice to avoid mistakes. i have since read that it makes sense to pour developer into the tank in the dark with the lid off to fill it more rapidly and avoid uneven development.

i use the tank now as a film washer filling it first with water and then sliding the tray fixed film into the slots quite easily in daylight.

steve simmons · Mar 16, 2004

There is a detailed description of my tray development process in a free article on our web site

www.viewcamera.com

it is easier than you think.

steve simmons

philbed · Mar 16, 2004

I have stopped developing 4x5 sheets film in Combiplan when I have discovered BTZS tubes. With the tank you need 1.2 liter of solution for 6 sheets, only 60cc per sheet for the tube. Development is also more consistent with the tube. I only use the tank for fixing and washing the negatives.

Aggie · Mar 16, 2004

steve simmons said:
I am befuddled by the want to use these tanks. They require the user to develop all the sheets for the same length of time.

I still think tray development is the way to go. I can develop six sheets simultaneously for six different times. 1 scratched negative in 26 years.

steve simmons

The nikor I can do more than 6 sheets at a time of 4x5. And most times when I am out in the field I can take upward of 20 shots. This gives me a chance to develop all the ones that would be of a same development time. If it is 6 or 5 sheets, I can use my jobo. For the times I want to use 2 to 4 I use Gordon Hutchings ss basket. For one sheet I use a nice little 5x7 tray. I have my system and it works for me.

sanking · Mar 16, 2004

Aggie said:
.

I have my system and it works for me.

And there is the key. Most persons who have been developing negatives for any length of time have a system that works best for them. There are advantages and disadvantages to all systems of development so by experience we adopt those systems that work best for us. To do otherwise would be just plain stupid, if not masochistic.

Photographers today are using many different systems: rotary processing in BTZS tubes and Jobo drums, shuffle agitation in trays, develop by inspection in trays, development in tanks such as the HP Combi-Plan, development in trays with the film in PVC tubes, the Sexton Slosher, and what am I missing?

Discussions such as this, when they take place, are most useful when they carefully weigh the pros and cons of each system according to reasonable criteria such as: 1) ability to provide even development, 2) freedom from development artifacts such as scratches, etc. 3) ease of operation, 4) potential to do most of the operation in daylight, and 5) cost. Those are my criteria, from highest importance to lowest, with about double value assigned to #1.

Sandy King

David Ruby · Mar 29, 2004

I have and use the Yankee tank, so I can't comment on the others. My only comment is that it uses a LOT of chemistry, so I always try to have all 12 slots filled to make the most of it. I haven't noticed any poor quality issues though(yet).

Jdef told me another option that I'm anxious to try though, and that is development by inspection. He uses a very small green light on a footswitch. He developes the negs in a tray, and when he reaches the development time he flips the light on and inspects the neg. If the highlights are there, then he's done. I'm going to try this method using a Kodah No. 13 filter that I just got for panolure printing. I like the idea, we'll see how it works. Did I get that right Jdef?

mobtown_4x5 · Mar 29, 2004

I have the Yankee (the secret- forget the side-to-side instructions- shake the shit out of it) and Nikor (works better, same secret) tanks, but I have just recently taken to tray processing, and have had good results. Steve S is right- give the trays a shot!
By the way, I'm curious as to why folks seem to limit themselves to 6 or less in the tray, what type of problems are you watching out for?
The reason I ask is that, well I guess I'm too dumb to know any better, from using the tanks I got into the habit of working in groups of 12 negs (6 film holders). So that's how many I have been doing in trays. Yep, 12 :twisted:
I don't see any scratches by inspecting the negs...
...but then again I have not printed since I switched (working out an enlarger problem) - Maybe I am in for an unpleasant surprise when I get one of these tray-processed negs on the enlarger... :ermm:

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