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Found 4x5 Camera: Horseman 45FA, Chamonix 45N-2, Chamonix 45F-2

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Christopherjs

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After some searching online and after some searching in my old gear boxes I've found a Horseman 6x7 Graflok back and a Shen Hao 617 Graflok back. I've also discovered reflex viewers which can re-orient the ground glass image on a large format, something that has prevented me from wanting to try LF (as well as the price for 4x5 film while I'm just learning the system of tilt/shift).

I like the looks of these three cameras. I know you will have other reco's. While I'm open to them in theory, I really am honed in on these three.

As a note, I only ever want really excellent condition (mint, top mint if you were on eBay) gear. i know it costs more, but it is what it is.

Thanks!

_Christopher
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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MTGseattle

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I was hesitant to chime in, but the Horseman is such a different camera from the other 2. have you read up on it? As far as the Chamonix cameras go, I owned a 45n-2 for a while and really liked it. I'm still thinking about getting another one. Prices for the Chamonix cameras used have been what I would call "high" lately. I have no idea what the current tariff situation will do to the prices, but Hugo at Chamonix is a pleasure to do business with, and if you're looking for a mint copy, I think an actual new one may only cost you a couple hundred more.
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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I was hesitant to chime in, but the Horseman is such a different camera from the other 2. have you read up on it? As far as the Chamonix cameras go, I owned a 45n-2 for a while and really liked it. I'm still thinking about getting another one. Prices for the Chamonix cameras used have been what I would call "high" lately. I have no idea what the current tariff situation will do to the prices, but Hugo at Chamonix is a pleasure to do business with, and if you're looking for a mint copy, I think an actual new one may only cost you a couple hundred more.

hi MTG. comments like these are why i love popping into forums, even if only the classifieds. i feel the concern and appreciate your knowledge!

i am aware of the limitations of the Horseman, but only in theory. i tried shooting LF once (literally fired the shutter once) and was overwhelmed. it was with a chamonix 45N-2. and it wasn't that camera that was a problem. it was me not understanding the machine that is a LF camera.

but the quality of that camera was apparent.

i plan to do short day hikes and some backpacking with this camera. so i want something relatively light. i am not interested in major movements from what i understand, so i think even the limited range of the Horseman will be okay (again, i think but don't know). i also shoot almost always in a moderate range, think 35-90mm FOV's in 35mm equivalent terms.

the Horseman is appealing because the set up is way quicker and it alleviates my PTSD with that one time i made my LF image. quicker set up, things lock/zero into place very easily. heck, if i get a particular lens i can leave it attached. in many ways it feels like a good intro camera. but it weighs about a pound more than the Chamonix and it won't be any cheaper. the focal length restrictions seem acceptable to me for my first LF camera. i'm only going to take two lenses into the field with me at max anyway.

plus it looks cool! really cool! and the way it works just seem very satisfying. i used to try not to value aesthetics of gear, but i would always find myself still wanting to try something that i didn't buy simply because it was cool. the itch never went away until i had it myself. i bucked trends trying to feel superior that i saw beyond the surface, but internally knew i wanted to try it first hand! so i'm learning to embrace that desire, if the trend aligns with something that's actually pretty neat.

the chamonix's are awesome. and i think you're exactly right about the used market. i was talking to a seller about a 45F-2 for $1300 when i could buy new for $1510 (shipped, no tax). then i found out he lost the GG protector which is $60 from Chamonix and i thought i'm just buying new. i even added everything to my cart.

i'm just not in a rush and would love to save a little money buying used. often used cameras come as kits and making the whole purchasing experience easier. so it's tempting to wait and it's tempting to buy. i don't know how much longer i'll last holding out for used, even if there is no rush (i hope to make a trip in January with this camera, so i want it by then).

lastly between the 45N-2 and 45F-2, even though adding rear movements adds complexity and creates even more potential for confusion, i realize i don't have to move it if i don't want to. but when i graduate to it, it'll be there with the F-2. and the cost difference is negligible.

anyway, there's my essay of a response.

appreciate your comment. hope mine makes sense.

_christopher
 

MTGseattle

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That all makes sense. I too really like the certainty that comes with a "technical" box camera. Think Linhof Technika as kind of the accepted gold standard, then you have Toyo, Wista, Horseman, etc. in no particular order. IMO, the Wista cameras seem to be undervalued on the used market when compared to the other big names.
I'm almost positive that the Horseman FA is the lightest modern metal camera of this type though I may be forgetting something.
If you understand its few limitations, I think it could be a good choice. There are a few older discussions regarding which lenses will indeed fold up into that camera.
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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That all makes sense. I too really like the certainty that comes with a "technical" box camera. Think Linhof Technika as kind of the accepted gold standard, then you have Toyo, Wista, Horseman, etc. in no particular order. IMO, the Wista cameras seem to be undervalued on the used market when compared to the other big names.
I'm almost positive that the Horseman FA is the lightest modern metal camera of this type though I may be forgetting something.
If you understand its few limitations, I think it could be a good choice. There are a few older discussions regarding which lenses will indeed fold up into that camera.

i saw a mention of wista on one of those threads. i'll do some looking into it tonight and probably make a purchase in the next couple of days. thanks again for your thoughts. they are appreciated (like the horseman fa being the lightest. that is a concern and hard to find info on the web).
 

B.S.Kumar

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I have Wista metal and wooden cameras too:



Kumar
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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I have Wista metal and wooden cameras too:



Kumar

thanks kumar! i'll have a look.
 

nathanbucs

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I use a Chamonix 45n2 and sometimes I wish that the setup would be quicker. I may be complaining too much but having to screw in the front standard every time before using it feels somewhat tedious. It’s a great camera though and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a LF camera.
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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I use a Chamonix 45n2 and sometimes I wish that the setup would be quicker. I may be complaining too much but having to screw in the front standard every time before using it feels somewhat tedious. It’s a great camera though and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a LF camera.

sometimes those 15 seconds repetitions are annoying! and it's exactly why i'm considering a different camera. but i've once again added the F-2 to my cart and all but pulled the trigger. i just read about the H1 which doesn't fold and stays set up with the lens attached. it takes up more room in the bag, is heavier, and apparently not as nice to focus since it requires using two knobs at once. it probably isn't for me, but it is enough new info that i might take another day to decide. in the end the 45F-2 is probably what makes most sense for me as it will have no need to 'upgrade' later since it has all the movement possibilities. i also have a 6x17 shen hao back that will fit the 4x5 back, and though the H1 allows for the (very expensive) upgrade to a 5x7 back that would hold a 6x17, i think at this point before really even knowing how i'll do in LF i should just build around what i have.

so again the F-2 is leading the pack (as i looked into the Wistas and they seem considerably heavier and just didn't get me as excited as the Horseman or the Chamonixs).
 

ediz7531

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Kyle McDougall’s review of the Horseman FA got me tempted to buy that camera given its relative light weight for a metal camera.
In the end ended up selling a kidney and got a Linhof Master Technika instead. Heavy, but it’s such a formidable camera: makes Leica, Rolleis, and Hasselblad look like toy cameras.
A Chamonix 45f-2 seems so superbly made and so lightweight that I’m tempted myself too for long hikes, although with a good hiking backpack the Linhof has been relatively easy to carry.

Good luck with your decision.
 
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nathanbucs

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good luck with your decision! can’t go wrong with any of these
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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I use a Chamonix 45n2 and sometimes I wish that the setup would be quicker. I may be complaining too much but having to screw in the front standard every time before using it feels somewhat tedious. It’s a great camera though and I would recommend it to anyone looking for a LF camera.

Kyle McDougall’s review of the Horseman FA got me tempted to buy that camera given its relative light weight for a metal camera.
In the end ended up selling a kidney and got a Linhof Master Technika instead. Heavy, but it’s such a formidable camera: makes Leica, Rolleis, and Hasselblad look like toy cameras.
A Chamonix 45f-2 seems so superbly made and so lightweight that I’m tempted myself too for long hikes, although with a good hiking backpack the Linhof has been relatively easy to carry.

Good luck with your decision.

that's the video that got me interested in the 45fa as well. i shouldn't go for it as i have two lenses already that would work well with the chamonix. but man it's so nice when things are a kit. it's great that we have multiple, solid choices out there. and i think that chamonix is a full pound lighter than the horseman, but for obvious reasons (it's not protected). another day of thinking i'll pull the trigger on one or the other, but still haven't.
 

nathanbucs

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I just remembered you’re the one who sold me the 45n2 kit which came with a 90 Nikkor and a 210 APO Symmar on FM forum lol.

Good to hear you’re getting back to LF. Thanks again for the great deal!
 
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Christopherjs

Christopherjs

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I just remembered you’re the one who sold me the 45n2 kit which came with a 90 Nikkor and a 210 APO Symmar on FM forum lol.

Good to hear you’re getting back to LF. Thanks again for the great deal!

yeah that's me! got me wishing i had it all now, as the desire has struck again. and i know what a challenge it will be, so i feel prepared. and you're welcome! i think the photo community deserves great deals.
 
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