4900-pd,pt

Have a new Epson 4900. Will be making pictorico negatives. Does anybody have a qtr text file to get me in the ballpark? I'm used to an R2400.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Vern M.

Since QTR just started supporting the 4900 with the most recent release (just a handful of weeks ago, IIRC), I doubt there are that many QTR/4900 users who have curves ready to share. So I offer this suggestion, half in jest and half quite seriously:

Now would be a great time to learn how to make a QTR negative profile from scratch.

I've been putting together some notes on a simplified QTR approach that I hope to write up some day, but it's still in it's infancy. It's geared towards someone with access to either a reflection densitometer or a spectro (i1Pro or the like). I haven't addressed the scanner-as-densitometer issue, since I prefer to use one of the other instruments. I'll gladly share my thoughts on how to accomplish this off-line, as what I have is not really ready for public dissemination. Feel free to email or PM me.

In general, I wish you the best of luck.

--Greg

Yes, this might be the time! I'll look into getting a densitometer, then get back to you.

Vern

The orange and green colors don't seem to help like I had hoped. I just went with a text similar to the r2400. I'm curious if anyone has any other ideas or results. But then again, I am a little curious!

Vern

An effective blocking color needs to be determined by testing -- RNP, PDN, or some equivalent method.

Miller said:

The orange and green colors don't seem to help like I had hoped. I just went with a text similar to the r2400. I'm curious if anyone has any other ideas or results. But then again, I am a little curious!

Vern

Click to expand...

Yes, believe it or not, I've been testing.

Vern

Miller said:

Yes, believe it or not, I've been testing.

Vern

Click to expand...

I get it, the 4900 has both green and orange ink. I would be curious to see your calibration sheet to see how much blocking they provide. While they may not be able to substitute for K or yellow in the highlights, maybe they would work well for the shadows.

I use a 3800 and my highlights are equal parts pK and Y with a little C as a filler. I use a two stage curve and my shadows are mostly LK with a bit of LM & LC thrown in as a filler. Not sure why I include LM as it does very little.

I tried to upload my calibration sheet, but for some reason I can't.

I'm kind of surprised that the green of the 4900 wasn't more effective as a blocking color. I've had good luck with 2:1:1 PK:Y:C

Equal parts Y and C is pretty much green on my 3880, and it's almost as effective as PK. My theory was that having a 3-part ink (black), a 2-part ink (C) and a 1-part ink (Y) would make for fairly smooth transitions...I'm happy with it. But I haven't done any rigorous comparisons with other recipes.

gmikol said:

I'm kind of surprised that the green of the 4900 wasn't more effective as a blocking color. I've had good luck with 2:1:1 PK:Y:C

Equal parts Y and C is pretty much green on my 3880, and it's almost as effective as PK. My theory was that having a 3-part ink (black), a 2-part ink (C) and a 1-part ink (Y) would make for fairly smooth transitions...I'm happy with it. But I haven't done any rigorous comparisons with other recipes.

Click to expand...

My question would be does the C really add much density. For me the Y is very close to as good a blocker as pK. I would agree that I think the C helps smooth out the negative.

I'm with you, once I hit the happy spot, time to move on and make prints.

Orange will be a great blocker if I can get it under control. I have to wait for more pictorico now.

Vern

How does orange compare to pK or mK in blocking? Also why is it difficult to control?

R Shaffer said:

My question would be does the C really add much density. For me the Y is very close to as good a blocker as pK. I would agree that I think the C helps smooth out the negative.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I don't have any of my blocking test prints laying around any more, and even if I did, my work area is a complete disaster area right now...I couldn't find them if I did.

I based my approach on this thread from the alt-process list:

Dead Link Removed

The author ran ink-on-pictorico samples through a UV-VIS specrophotometer for an R2400 (Ultrachrome K3 inkset...same as 3800), and compiled the data here:

http://www.albertonovo.it/scan/epson_inks.html

You can see from the graph that cyan and yellow have very nearly the same absorption around 370nm, which is right around the sensitivity peak for dichromate for carbon. This seemed to be borne out in my testing, so I'm happy with it, and sticking with it. This approach might not work with other processes with different sensitivities. It's just dumb luck that it works for carbon.

I'm sticking with this approach for carbon...I'll have to re-evaluate if I get around to cyanotypes, which I hope to, eventually.

--Greg

I wouldn't use it by itself, but to help smooth the tones and add more control to the ends of the scale. So I'm trying to adjust the other values to balance the addition of more ink. I definitely don't have a talent for numbers, so these things are a stretch for me!

Vern

Vern--

I've approached the process of getting my max ink mix down in 2 steps:

1) Figure out the ratio of different inks that I need, based on printing QTR's ink separation test page. As I said before for my process it's 2:1:1 PK:Y:C, and I guessed that I wouldn't need more than 50:25:25 of actual ink.

2) Print a 0% to 100% step wedge with this ink mix (50:25:25) in my process (carbon), and see where I hit paper white. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it was at the 80% ink mark. I can adjust my ink mix down to 40:20:20, and know that for this particular combination of sensitizer, exposure time, etc., that is the ink that I need to get paper white (assuming I've already figured out what I need to get max black.). Don't worry about whether the curve is perfect at this point, as long as you can see some transition between all the steps in a 21-step digital step wedge (5% ink increments), then you're good.

Now you have the 2 end-points (paper white and max black) nailed down. Shaping / linearizing the curve is the next step...

--Greg

PS--If Bremerton were a little closer, I'd offer to help out in person...

Greg,

Thanks for the tips, I'm getting closer. I like Vancouver, I used to go there for the Regional Handball Championships, great fun.

Vern

For Pd. the density of Orange is 85 percent of MK and Yellow. Green is in between LLK and LK.

Vern

I have been using the 4900 printer and Lodima paper for awhile; with the PDN system I find that the red-orange spectrum is a good blocker of UV light and blue spectrum light that the paper is sensitive to- I print negatives that are fairly red. If anyone does obtain a QTR profile, I may want to try it, but i believe that the light source is a factor that would make a QTR curve for one printer less effective for another printer.

I now have a QTR profile and curve for the 4900. But it is designed for platinum-palladium. I can share.
John, do you use pictorico? Is it ultra? I'm having pizza wheel marks on my negatives. Hoping Ultra will fix it.
Vern

Yes, I use Pictorico Ultra; have not seen any wheel marks using the manual feed top slot.

Would welcome the chance to look at your QTR profile for the 4900

Miller said:

I now have a QTR profile and curve for the 4900. But it is designed for platinum-palladium. I can share.
John, do you use pictorico? Is it ultra? I'm having pizza wheel marks on my negatives. Hoping Ultra will fix it.
Vern

Click to expand...

I've just gotten my 4900 after my 4000 gave up the ghost. I've made my first 8 color curves along the lines of the ones I have for the 4000, but I haven't done a palladium print of the stepwedge yet. Having some problems loading my DAS Transfilm.

Best,
Jim

I just learned palladium printing and want to create digital negatives from my Epson 4900 and Pictorico Ultra. Looks like you've done a lot of leg work. I'm hoping to not have to start from scratch... Can you share the curves that you are using?

David

Miller said:

I now have a QTR profile and curve for the 4900. But it is designed for platinum-palladium. I can share.
John, do you use pictorico? Is it ultra? I'm having pizza wheel marks on my negatives. Hoping Ultra will fix it.
Vern

Click to expand...

I recently moved from a 4000 to 4900 and here is the QTR profile that I eventually settled on:
Process is Bostick & Sullivan's NA2
Media is Inkpress Transparency film.
Paper is Arches Platine

PRINTER=Quad4900
CURVE_NAME=arches_platine_4900
GRAPH_CURVE=YES
N_OF_INKS=8
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=100
BOOST_K=31
LIMIT_K=11
LIMIT_C=11
LIMIT_M=11
LIMIT_Y=11
LIMIT_LC=22
LIMIT_LM=22
LIMIT_LK=22
LIMIT_LLK=
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=2
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=LK
GRAY_VAL_2=22
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=0
GRAY_SHADOW=0
GRAY_OVERLAP=
GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_HIGHLIGHT=0
TONER_SHADOW=0
TONER_GAMMA=
TONER_CURVE=
N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0
TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=0
TONER_2_SHADOW=0
TONER_2_GAMMA=
TONER_2_CURVE=
N_OF_UNUSED=1
UNUSED_INK_1=LLK
COPY_CURVE_C=K
COPY_CURVE_M=K
COPY_CURVE_Y=K
COPY_CURVE_LC=K
COPY_CURVE_LM=K



I don't have a densitometer and my scanner isn't accurate enough to linearize the profile, so my process is a bit more casual than most, but it does give reasonable separation between all 12 steps on a 12 step wedge and compares favourably to the test image at: Dead Link Removed (converted to BW). I find the bottom row of that image particularly useful in understanding what needs to be done for the extreme highlights and shadows.

A few observations on the 4900 compared to the 4000. The 4000 was able to deal with the Inkpress film directly from the cassette without using the supplied tissue follow sheet (is there a technical name for that?). The film has a bit of a curl to it and using the follow sheet means that the vacuum isn't effective in keeping the film flat and initially I had head strikes on the bottom right of the sheet - sometimes actually creasing the corner. Putting a reverse curl on that corner by hand seems to have solved that problem.