40mm lens is it the perfect inbetweeny

awty · Dec 21, 2022

Or just for those indecisive on whether to take a 50 or a 35.....
I like 40mm, it worked well on my Oly Trip, you don't have to get too close and you can always crop a little if you're a little too far away.
I just ordered a Voigtlander NOKTON classic 40mm F1.4 SC because they are fast, compact, cheap and I succumbed to buying a M3 and needed a M lens.
What do you think?
Huss of course will have 6 different varieties of 40mm, but does use them when he has 10 different other sizes to choose from?

Don_ih · Dec 21, 2022

I just bought a 40mm EF lens for an EOS 1n (which is to be a gift) - specifically since it's just a bit wider than 50 to have a slight wide feeling. And it's to be the main lens on that camera. I remember reading somewhere that 40mm is a close approximation of your natural view.

awty · Dec 21, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I just bought a 40mm EF lens for an EOS 1n (which is to be a gift) - specifically since it's just a bit wider than 50 to have a slight wide feeling. And it's to be the main lens on that camera. I remember reading somewhere that 40mm is a close approximation of your natural view.

I always thought 50mm was the normal, maybe 40mm is the new normal.
Always safest to buy your own gifts.

film_man · Dec 21, 2022

I like a 40. My main lens on the EOS 1N is a Voigtlander 40/2. Also have a 40/2.8 STM.

I've had the Voigtlander 40/1.4 VM on the M but in the end settled for the 35/1.4 VM II, it is nice to get the right framelines.

Nitroplait · Dec 21, 2022

Not sure I agree.
My stance is: I prefer 35. If I can't get that, I'd take 40 over 50.

35 or 50 is not really a difficult choice. It is "wide" vs "telecentric", a state of mind - most people knows where they stand.

Maybe I am really saying that 40 is "normal", 50 isn't.

johang · Dec 21, 2022

awty said:
I always thought 50mm was the normal, maybe 40mm is the new normal.
Always safest to buy your own gifts.

A lens is considered normal, if its focal length equals the diagonal of the film format, which is ~43mm for 24x36. So 40mm has always been more normal than 50.

M-88 · Dec 21, 2022

johang said:
A lens is considered normal, if its focal length equals the diagonal of the film format, which is ~43mm for 24x36.

I believe that is the reason why multitude of Japanese fixed lens rangefinder cameras had 42-43-45 mm lenses. But if I had a choice, I'd gladly go for 35 mm lens. I had Olympus 35 RC with 42 mm lens and it was too narrow for my work. Had several 28 mm lenses on various SLR cameras, but those were too wide. I know everything boils down to personal preference, but I just prefer 35 mm over 40 and/or 50.

Probably for the best, otherwise I'd have to sell a kidney and get 40 mm f/2 Voigtlander for F mount.

guangong · Dec 21, 2022

Whatever works for you. 35, 40, 50, all have their place. Much depends upon what and where you photograph. While I use them all, A 50 seems to fit my preview vision better. But that’s just me. Enjoy your 40!

faberryman · Dec 21, 2022

Lenses with a focal length equal to the diagonal of the film format (more or less) are available from most camera manufacturers, and if you like that angle of view for the type of photographs you take, by all means purchase and use one.

A lot of photographers use zoom lenses. A 24-70mm standard zoom is not uncommon. If you shoot digital, there is a program that will look through your EXIF data and tell you what focal length you most frequently use. I'd be surprised if most photographers' most frequently used focal length is 43.27mm, but I could be mistaken.

AZD · Dec 21, 2022

I think you’ll like it. I’m one of those who normally prefer a 50mm lens. I don’t have the Nokton but it’s definitely on my radar. However, I bought a 45mm Chiyoko Rokkor LTM a few months back and like the wider view for interiors and tight streets. Coverage was more or less (maybe a bit less?) to the visible edge of the M3 viewfinder. I have no problem visualizing that. The Nokton would add valuable speed and a bit wider view while still being a relatively small lens. Sounds like a winner. And like you said, you can crop the image when needed, so there’s your ~50mm view when you need it.

ic-racer · Dec 21, 2022

Using a 50mm lens on 35mm format camera is like using an 80mm lens on 6x4.5cm format. Both are the diagonal of a hypothetical square of the longest dimension.

In both cases it is a little oddball; I’m not a fan of either.

Paul Howell · Dec 21, 2022

Yes the 50mm is more on the long side for a normal lens, it is my preferred normal lens. But, I also like the 35mm on a couple of the fixed lens rangefinders and point and shoots I have. When I had a Leica IIIG and Canon 7S I don't recall a 40mm option.

Huss · Dec 21, 2022

awty said:
Or just for those indecisive on whether to take a 50 or a 35.....
I like 40mm, it worked well on my Oly Trip, you don't have to get too close and you can always crop a little if you're a little too far away.
I just ordered a Voigtlander NOKTON classic 40mm F1.4 SC because they are fast, compact, cheap and I succumbed to buying a M3 and needed a M lens.
What do you think?
Huss of course will have 6 different varieties of 40mm, but does use them when he has 10 different other sizes to choose from?

Wait, what? I only have the Summicron 40, the Rollei Sonnar 40, the CV 40 2.8 and the CV 40 1.2. I did have the 40 1.4 SC a while back and it was excellent. Not sure why I sold it.. ohh yeah I packaged it with a CLE I sold.

It's great on the M3 as you just use the full VF outside the frame lines. Size is great, handling is excellent. You'll love it.

The 40mm is my favourite all-round focal length.

Just took this last week with a CV 40

Huss · Dec 21, 2022

Works with color film too...

redbandit · Dec 21, 2022

everyone is wrong. Everyone knows that 70-100mm is the minimum focal length to use.

If your lazy-ish, a nice compact 30-80mm zoom is ideal. can go wide angle quickly, and then give you enough reach so you can take a photo of something without having to be 10 feet away to get the pretty dumpster out of the shot.

faberryman · Dec 21, 2022

Yes, most lenses work well with both black and white and color film. It tends not to be focal length specific.

bernard_L · Dec 21, 2022

Count me in. With a 50, I feel like having blinkers. Especially when that 50 is a 55 or a 58.

Still, I keep an open mind: 38 or 42 are acceptable

runswithsizzers · Dec 21, 2022

When I read:

johang said:
A lens is considered normal, if its focal length equals the diagonal of the film format, which is ~43mm for 24x36. So 40mm has always been more normal than 50.

... my first thought was trying to work out in my mind how that rule would apply equally to a rectangler format like 135, and a square format like 6x6cm?

Then I read:

ic-racer said:
Using a 50mm lens on 35mm format camera is like using an 80mm lens on 6x4.5cm format. Both are the diagonal of a hypothetical square of the longest dimension.

In both cases it is a little oddball; I’m not a fan of either.

Interesting. Intuitively "the diagonal of a hypothetical square of the longest dimension" appeals to me - and it explains why many say 50mm is the normal for 135 film, and perhaps fewer say 40/43mm(?)

I am guessing it might not be possible to define the concept of a "normal focal length" using only the science of optics without introducing some subjective criteria? So the concept of a "normal" focal length lens may be too vague to defend, except as a matter of opinion and convenience (as opposed to conforming to some law of science)?

This discussion in an article in the Atlantic magazine gives some historical perspective <https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/how-the-50-mm-lens-became-normal/560276/> Warning it is the Atlantic magazine - so expect some literary flourishes.

This article by Roger Cicala does a pretty good job of exploring why trying to describe any photographic lens as accurately corresponding to human vision is on shaky foundations: <https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2009/03/the-camera-vs-the-eye/>

Of couse, accurate definitions, optical theory, and long standing traditions all take a back seat to what is really important - which is, what focal length gives you the results you like best? If I am carrying my bag for 135 film gear, it will have both 50mm and 35mm lenses, and they probably get about equal use. But if I want to carry a camera, only (no bag), then sometimes I will use only my compact 40mm.

Huss · Dec 21, 2022

faberryman said:
Yes, most lenses work well with both black and white and color film. It tends not to be focal length specific.

Are you sure? This camera apparently only works with color film:

Petri Color 35 (1968)

This is a Petri Color 35, a compact 35mm point and shoot camera made by Petri Camera K.K. starting in 1968. The Petri Color 35 was the first in a series of Pe

mikeeckman.com

And some of my UV filters say digital on them, so they only work with digital cameras:

HOYA | Digital Filter Kit II

hoyafilter.com

And other lenses are offered in single coated or multi coated versions for their different abilities to render the tonalities on B&W film:

35 mm / 1:1.4 Nokton II | Voigtländer

www.voigtlaender.de

Multi coated can saturate colors more, making them perhaps a pick for color images.

faberryman · Dec 21, 2022

Huss said:
Are you sure?

Yes.

Huss · Dec 21, 2022

faberryman said:
Yes.

What a relief!

alanrockwood · Dec 21, 2022

A 40mm lens is OK. So is a 45mm lens. However, for me a 50mm lens is better, and I even prefer a 55mm or 58mm lens. I have now or have had in the past lenses of each of those focal lengths. I like 58mm the best. It better fits my vision of what is "normal". Of course, it all comes down to personal preference.

alanrockwood · Dec 21, 2022

One thing to consider is the aspect ratio of the format. 35mm has a 2:3 aspect ratio. If you crop that to make an 8x10 print then that could somewhat alter what one thinks of as "normal". The same general comment goes for 6x6cm format.

awty · Dec 21, 2022

Just goes to show my ignorance again, late to the party, I was largely unawares of the 40mm interchangeable lens, now Im not.......and a choice of single or multi coatings, we spoilt with choice.
Choosing the SC of coarse means I can only use B&W, which is fine coarse its the only film I have.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 21, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I just bought a 40mm EF lens for an EOS 1n (which is to be a gift) - specifically since it's just a bit wider than 50 to have a slight wide feeling. And it's to be the main lens on that camera. I remember reading somewhere that 40mm is a close approximation of your natural view.

It's close. The 35mm film diagonal is 43 mm but that should make little difference.

40mm lens is it the perfect inbetweeny

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