400 film?

[stradibarrius]

I need some 400 film and at this time I can't seem to find Neopan 400 in stock.
What do you think is the closest substitute?

 

[jmcd]

Which format?

 

[Rick A]

Call Freestyle--It shows in stock

Rick

 

[stradibarrius]

120 format. I checked freestyle this morning and they were out of stock in 120. I didn't check 35mm...

 

[frobozz]

I thought Neopan 400 had been discontinued...

Duncan

 

[fschifano]

Neopan 400 in 120 has been discontinued. It is still being manufactured in 35 mm format. The closest replacement you'll find for Neopan 400 in 120 would be Tri-X 400. When printed, the two are almost indistinguishable from each other. Neopan 400 was selling at bargain basement prices by comparison, thus it's popularity with me and more than a few other photographers out there. But yeah, if you're looking for a replacement, Tri-X will do nicely.

 

[fotch]

Tri-X

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Tri-X is almost the same as Neopan 400. Grain wise and resolution they are nearly identical, but their tonal characteristics are a little different. The Neopan has a bit of a shoulder that could make life difficult for you if you don't watch it in film processing. Tri-X is more linear in its response and therefore a bit more forgiving in its nature.

But it's undoubtedly a really good substitute.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Actually, you might wish to give Ilford Delta 400 a go. Its characteristic curve looks more like Neopan 400 than Tri-X 400.
There is a slight shoulder with it. Not as much as Neopan 400, where the whole tonal curve from mid-tones and up is shouldering, but there is a shoulder at the top.

- Thomas

 

[stradibarrius]

I have shot several rolls of Delta 400 and have been impressed. I also loved Tri-X 320 but it's gone too. Thomas your shots of Fergus and Maggie with Tmax are nice. I know it is different film from Neopan but...

 

[Anon Ymous]

...The Neopan has a bit of a shoulder that could make life difficult for you if you don't watch it in film processing...

Thomas, Neopan does have more shoulder than 400TX, but not as much as the graphs show. You see, in Kodak's chart, the Y axis scale (density) is longer than the X axis scale. If you "normalise" it (compress image at the Y axis by 20%) 400TX will have more obvious shoulder. Still more linear than Neopan though.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Yes, you are right. Here is another picture where the scale of the Neopan has been compressed to the exact same height and width as the Tri-X. And I think the difference is still clear.

I was merely pointing out the difference between the two. If you severely overdevelop Neopan 400 it will block up like a bullet proof vest. Tri-X is not so sensitive.

- Thomas

Thomas, Neopan does have more shoulder than 400TX, but not as much as the graphs show. You see, in Kodak's chart, the Y axis scale (density) is longer than the X axis scale. If you "normalise" it (compress image at the Y axis by 20%) 400TX will have more obvious shoulder. Still more linear than Neopan though.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Here is a version of the graph where I superimposed the Neopan 400 curve directly on top of the Tri-X 400 curve. It's a little clearer this way.

The scale on both X and Y axis have been aligned before the superimposition.

Pardon my terrible Photoshop skills...

I hope this illustrates better the differences between Neopan and Tri-X.

- Thomas

 

[wendy g]

What does the graph describe in practical terms? What's the significance of a film's "shoulder"?
Thanks!

 

[Leighgion]

I'd have to agree Tri-X is the closest you'll get to feel of Neopan 400, but if you're willing to try out other looks, there's also T-Max, Delta 400 and Fomapan 400.

 

[ic-racer]

What does the graph describe in practical terms? What's the significance of a film's "shoulder"?
Thanks!

You need to be more careful of overexposure.

 

[fschifano]

You need to be more careful of overexposure.

In practical terms, that about sums it up. A film with a more pronounced shoulder will blow out the highlights faster. Less dramatically, it will make delicate highlights harder to separate out on the print.

 

[wendy g]

In practical terms, that about sums it up. A film with a more pronounced shoulder will blow out the highlights faster. Less dramatically, it will make delicate highlights harder to separate out on the print.

Yeah, thanks for that explanation.
I sometimes loose details in the highlights with Neopan 400 and especially 1600.

 

[brian steinberger]

I would assume Tri-x is the closest match to Neopan 400 now that it's gone. I've started using HP5 and am very pleased with the results.

 

[pantelis adiavastos]

trix all the way.... well suited in rodinal 1:50 14 minutes, and if the thing darkens you can develop in diafine in 1600 and get superb results.
not to mention stand processing...

also because is super manipulative
and for all the technical - tonal reasons too

 

[stradibarrius]

I ordered some some HP5 and Arista EDU Ultra 400 today to see how I like it. From what I understand it is Fomapan 400???