4 X 5 camera

johnnywalker · Nov 15, 2004

I've been thinking of buying a 4 X 5 camera. Would someone be so kind as to tell me if this camera on ebay looks like a reasonable deal? And roughly at what point would it stop being a good deal (assuming it is now) if the camera is as described?
Is there a website that runs through a comparison of the 4 X 5 cameras? The other one I was thinking of is a Chinese Shen Tao (sp?).
One thing, I rarely sell things after I own them and prefer not to buy things I will outgrow.
TIA,
John
Would help to include the address:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3852555293&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Alex Hawley · Nov 15, 2004

Looks to me like an excellent kit. You won't got wrong with it at all. An excellent variety of lenses. Wish I could have gotten this for my first 4x5.

Price? Don't know, but as I said, it an excellent kit. I would recommend bidding up as far as you feel comfortable. Look at some of the other auctions for a comparison. Good Luck!

Flotsam · Nov 15, 2004

What kind of photographs are you interested in taking? There is quite a difference between a Sinar F metal view camera and a Shen-Hao wooden field camera.

John McCallum · Nov 15, 2004

Hey John,

That's a very nice 4x5 kit. I was looking at an almost identical setup in an Auckland camera shop this morning, which sold recently. It was nearly new (but 2nd hand) and sold for US $2560-00. Of course the lenses included will influence the price significantly, but they looked similar in selection to what you are looking at.
The other difference of course is purchasing privately from ebay as opposed to a retail shop in Auckland, so naturally take this price indication with a grain of salt. But this may give you a feeling for price levels here anyway. It's a good camera for its' purpose.
Best,
john

rbarker · Nov 15, 2004

You might want to study some of the articles on the Large Format Photography site before making your decision, John.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

There are discussions of the different camera types available, as well as lens choices, and so forth. Defining your personal "requirements" for the kit will help you avoid costly errors.

I also have a brief article about the basic considerations on my site at:

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Donald Miller · Nov 16, 2004

I bought a Sinar F as my first 4X5 camera...then I sold it because it was a PITA for field work. However, if you want to do commercial or product work then this would be a decent beginning rig.

Jorge · Nov 16, 2004

Beleive it or not VC magazine does have a good article on this. Here is the link for the article, I think it would help you.

http://www.viewcamera.com/pdf/VC_Getting Started.pdf

mark · Nov 16, 2004

I have a sinar F I bought it very used. If you are not into hiking I find it to be a very capable shoot from close to the car camera. I've gone a couple miles with it. It is heavy but not at all over whelming and the sucker folds up tight. To put it mildly I love it. To reduce weight I shoot quickloads and it has helped a lot. If I were going more than a few miles I would definately have gone with a field camera.

I only shoot color with 4x5 cuz I don't have a darkroom. Bryans 4x5 contacts are making rethink that choice though. They're purdy pitchers.

John McCallum · Nov 16, 2004

Jorge said:
Beleive it or not VC magazine does have a good article on this. Here is the link for the article, I think it would help you.

Cough cough!!!

kidding.

noseoil · Nov 16, 2004

The 4X5 Shen Hao is a good camera at a great price. They are well made and easy to use. Plenty of movements, good fit and finish, easy to back pack makes for a good deal buying new. I've had mine for nearly 2 years now and am still pleased with it. Bellows extension will limit you to a lens of less than 300mm unless it is a tele design.

jd callow · Nov 16, 2004

this appears to be a good deal. These cameras really need the extension rail which does not seem to be part of the auction. The standard rail is only 18" long.

It is not that heavy about 6lbs. I have carried a similar camera all over various cities and on public transportation. Beacause it is designed to be a studio camera it does not pack as nice as a field, but it also does not need a recessed board for WA lenses and has more movements than you will ever need.

johnnywalker · Nov 19, 2004

Well, I did not end up with the Sinar F. I am going to get a 4X5 camera though, and am now looking at other Sinar F's, P's and C's, and Toyo G's and CX's - with and without lenses and film holders etc. My head is spinning, but I am getting a sense of the suckers. I'm hoping to find one with a lens, even if it's only good enough to get me going. Some of these lenses are outrageously expensive, and their not even zooms!! :confused: (joke!!)

Thanks for all the help and advice.

rbarker · Nov 19, 2004

Sounds like you've decided on a monrail as opposed to a field camera? Great for studio and at/near the car, but often a real pain at any distance from the car.

As to the price of large-format lenses, it's better to compare them to pro-level glass for 35mms (the $1500-$2500/lens kind). But, you can also think of it as getting so much more glass for your money.

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johnnywalker · Nov 24, 2004

Well, I'm not having much luck on ebay. It seems people wait for the last 10 seconds of the auction to put their bids in.

Can someone tell me what model of cambo camera this is? I've asked the seller, but he doesn't know. It does not have the geared rise and fall, which apparently rules out the "Legend" model.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3854747162&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

TIA, and any comments on the camera itself would also be welcome.

While I'm on a roll, another camera I'm looking at is a Toyo D45M. It really is very pretty with lots of bells and whistles, but is it a good camera? Pictures etc. are here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3854279626&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

TIA, again.

John

John McCallum · Nov 25, 2004

rbarker said:
...favourite lenses - the auto-exposure 110mm Super Symmar.

Eh? my SS doesn't have an Auto mode!

John - rbarker makes a good point about monorails as opposed to field cameras. The field cameras generally fold up much smaller, and are lighter. With this comes a compromise of camera movements, however this is usually OK for landscape photography. Worth considering if you won't be doing much studio or architecture work.
Best, John.

jd callow · Nov 25, 2004

If it were me ( I do not shoot landscapes)
If you can find a sinar c at a good price ~1k buy it! They are head and shoulders better than the F's.

Combo's and Toyo Mono rails are good cameras but bulky.

Toyo feild cameras are excelent. I ahve never used an Arca Swiss but have been told and read things by those I trust that they are as functional as a Sinar C or P and as light as the F's. I have never used a wood Field camera but I sure do like the weight. I have (for a very shot time) used a Press Camera (Bush Pressman) and it was also very nice similar to a Toyo Field.

johnnywalker · Nov 25, 2004

I'm beginning to think I'm missing something here. How much does this stuff weigh? I was figuring maximum 10-15 kilos including the tripod. I'm 63 years old and was a heavy smoker from 16 to 62 and I hate exercise for its own sake. My occupation is a forester, which means I have to get out in the forest once in a while, but I don't consider myself especially fit. I don't think I'd have any trouble carring a properly packed 10-15 kilos for 5-6 km and back if there were no mountains involved. Mind you, I don't anticipate having to do this much. Most of the stuff I anticipate shooting won't be that far from a road, but it will be outdoors.

Anyway, I would have thought the problem with the monorails would be more in the time it takes to set them up and take them down rather than actually carrying them.

Cheers,

John

John McCallum said:
Eh? my SS doesn't have an Auto mode!

John - rbarker makes a good point about monorails as opposed to field cameras. The field cameras generally fold up much smaller, and are lighter. With this comes a compromise of camera movements, however this is usually OK for landscape photography. Worth considering if you won't be doing much studio or architecture work.
Best, John.

Ole · Nov 25, 2004

johnnywalker said:
I'm beginning to think I'm missing something here. How much does this stuff weigh? I was figuring maximum 10-15 kilos including the tripod.

A lightweight monorail is no problem within this range. I carry a Linhof Color, a selection of lenses (90, 135, 150, 210, 360) - none of them particularly lightweight - six holders, extra film, changing bag, spotmeter, and tripod with a heavy ballhead. Total weight is about 11 kg.

johnnywalker said:
Anyway, I would have thought the problem with the monorails would be more in the time it takes to set them up and take them down rather than actually carrying them.

Again, cameras differ. I can have the Color set up in a few seconds (!), and the shot finished, notes made, camera packed and all while the field camer users are still trying to unfold their cameras.

Peter Schrager · Nov 25, 2004

View camera

I believve I saw a used Wista at Midwest Photo. They weigh abiut four lbs. and fold up sweet. Around $700. How about a new Shen-hau or Tachihara for around $600
Regards Peter

Shmoo · Nov 25, 2004

If you have rentals available to you, I would highly recommend renting both types of cameras to get an idea of how long it takes to set them up AND how heavy they are.

If you're not going to take the camera on long hikes, then you probably can get either monorail or field camera. Some of the monorail cameras can be folded as well (Sinar F's are easy to fold).

rbarker · Nov 25, 2004

johnnywalker said:
I'm beginning to think I'm missing something here. . . .

Convenience is a function of both weight and bulk, John. Not all designs are equal when it comes to bulk, even though they may be similar in weight. As an example, here's a shot of my son, who was "assisting" me on a trip to Yosemite back in '98. He was fresh out of Marine boot camp at the time, so carrying the monorail wasn't a big problem for him. But, the 40+ pounds total would have killed me in that terrain.

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Nick Zentena · Nov 25, 2004

johnnywalker said:
I'm beginning to think I'm missing something here. How much does this stuff weigh? I was figuring maximum 10-15 kilos including the tripod.

properly packed 10-15 kilos for 5-6 km and back if there were no mountains involved.

My tripod is 3kg+

The head is over 1kg+

So that's 4kg for me without the camera or a lens. My ansco 5x7 must be a good 4kgs. Most of my lenses are relatively small and light but some big lenses can be huge. You still need film,holders,light meter, filters,note book. Lunch-)

Still it's not the weight it's the ability to pack everything up well. I don't know how well the average studio camera breaks down for travel but I'm going to guess it wasn't a big design issue. OTOH you'd figure field cameras are designed to be taken into the field.

Ted Harris · Nov 25, 2004

Go wih the rental advice if you can! If your primary purpose is to work outdoors and shoot landscapes then, nice as a monorail may be, you seldom need its movements ... maybe never. As for weight and portability, most folk are much happier with ligher weight easier to set up field cameras, but not all.

All this comes from another 63 year old although not a smoker and in reasonable shape I know I am beyond the days of lugging a monotail into the field. Further, there are times when the seconds saved setting up a field camera are seconds you need. Of course YMMV so try 'em both.

johnnywalker · Nov 25, 2004

rbarker said:
As an example, here's a shot of my son, who was "assisting" me on a trip to Yosemite back in '98.

Hmm. My kids are probably wise to me, but I wonder if I could interest my grandson in photography. He's big for his age, and still young enough to believe (almost) everything his grandfather says! All I have to say is "camera", not "big honkin camera".

rbarker · Nov 25, 2004

Good plan, John.

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