4 X 5 camera & Fuji Instant Film

johnny9fingers · Jun 2, 2009

Also posted in the large format forum:

Hello, I want to play around with the 4 x 5 instant films offered by Fuji, but need a camera. Initially thought to get a press camera, ( have a feeler out on a Busch Press camera) but then started thinking about a pinhole camera. I suppose the press camera would give me more options, but the idea of a nice pinhole camera is interesting. I've grown weary of the digital merry-go-round, always chasing the latest techno-whiz-bang wonder cams. Now wanting simplicity... I'd gladly trade my new Pentax K20D for a decent press or field camera..... If you were in my shoes where would you start???

Thanks, John

DWThomas · Jun 2, 2009

Well, if you go the 4x5 route, you can always make a new lensboard for it to mount a pinhole and have the best of both worlds!

DaveT

johnny9fingers · Jun 3, 2009

I will probably do both. Get a Busch Pressman D or Meridian 45B in good shape and the 4 X 5 pinhole camera from Zero Image. Now I have to sell my Pentax DSLR gear and get back to basics.....

John

Venchka · Jun 4, 2009

Perhaps you missed Dave's point: Turning a spare lens board for any 4x5 camera into a pinhole device is fast, easy, cheap and a lot more compact.

johnny9fingers · Jun 5, 2009

Hello Venchka, I saw Dave's post but was in the middle of a deal for a medium format camera. So the 4 X 5 press camera will have to wait while I get accustomed to my Mamiya Universal Press. I could rig a cap and use this camera as a pinhole in the near future.... Regards...... John

nickandre · Jun 5, 2009

I love the packfilm size of that film. I've been shooting it with that polaroid mamiya frankencamera they sold a while back and I'm very impressed. It gives me the look of a fresh 35mm negative scan without the 35mm negative or scanner.

How is the 4x5 film? Is there any easy way to shoot it?

geoferrell · Jun 5, 2009

I've got a Mamiya Universal with Polariod back and just tried the FP-100C instant color film, which makes great pictures, but I am unable to make an image transfer. It was my first attempt and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with the Fuji materials for image transfers. I think this material is also available in 4x5, and a black and white FP-3000B polaroid type is rated at EI 3200. And the Mamiya is great, but for 4x5 the Speed or Crown Graphic cameras are great and can be inexpensive.

davidst · Jun 11, 2009

Dave's on the right track. And his pics are good.

Pinholes have another wonderful property, they are "in focus" from the pinhole to infinity. The softness is due to defraction of the lightwave around the edges of the "hole".

I'd reckon slow film is best. There is already considerable softness in the image without grain intruding.

I'm new today to the APUG, so haven't had time to see what is already covered in pinhole stuff...I hope I'm not repeating too much already covered.

I used my Linhof with its convenient slip in 4x5 film in holders, ready to go. Made a pinhole in a soft drink (soda) can, and worked out the distance from the film and the pinhole size required. Punched it through with a micrometer-measured pin, making sure the hole was really clean (the pin turned out to be a dress-making needle, which had the right diameter after a search through my shed and the house). This hole was f200. Then coloured with a black felt pen to make sure no flare.

First pic was beaut, gorgeous full tones, using 100 iso film. Wow, I was hooked.

Now trying to find some black metal to punch pinholes into. Ordinary metals are "silver" coloured, and may be causing flare. Any one got ideas on black materials which will take a fine clean pin punched hole?

As for manual shutter... the exposures are so long, moving a black cloth off/on the camera is fine; some short term movement and camera judder is not a problem. (Off course long exposures of moving object are a problem to capture with pinhole work; eg swaying trees and branches)

Ansell Adams used machined gold plates with perfect holes of known diameter, hence knew their different f-stops. From their exactness, consistencey can be achieved.

Because the exposures are very long one needs to account for film reciprocity failure. So a calculated exposure of say, 1 minute, may have to be made for 2-3 minutes. Must use a light meter and do your sums.

paul_c5x4 · Jun 11, 2009

davidst said:
Now trying to find some black metal to punch pinholes into. Ordinary metals are "silver" coloured, and may be causing flare. Any one got ideas on black materials which will take a fine clean pin punched hole?

If you use steel, heating up to a dull red and then quenching will turn it black. Many years ago, used to use old engine oil to quench wrought iron work in - With current health & safety rules, you'd be better off using clean oil.

davidst · Jun 11, 2009

Thanks Paul, am thinking on that one. The hole must, fo me, be easily punched or pushed through. I haven't got the equipment for extremely fine drilling through steel. But I like the idea of blackening, as long as there is no gunk build-up in the hole, which then needs cleaning back to shiny metal. Or is the steel black all the way through?

2F/2F · Jun 11, 2009

I have a Mamiya Universal Polaroid setup (3x4, not 4x5) that I might think about trading, but I am ignorant as to Pentax's digital offerings. Does the K20D take old manual K mount lenses? I sometimes want a digital with more resolution than my Canon 10D.

DWThomas · Jun 11, 2009

davidst said:
Dave's on the right track. And his pics are good.

....

Now trying to find some black metal to punch pinholes into. Ordinary metals are "silver" coloured, and may be causing flare. Any one got ideas on black materials which will take a fine clean pin punched hole?

(Thanks for the picture compliment and welcome to APUG.)

I have read claims that some toners will blacken brass. I didn't get very far trying to do that with Kodak selenium and brown toners, but maybe there are concentration issues. I had an ancient sample here of a liquid for blackening aluminum that worked fairly well on the brass shim stock I used on my SQ-Hole camera. I've wondered if gun bluing liquid might work, I think it just needs to be some smelly sulfur compound with the right acidity.

I don't actually punch the pinhole, I raise a pimple, then sand with fine wet-or-dry sandpaper. Doing that, the initial color of the stock doesn't help.

DaveT

paul_c5x4 · Jun 11, 2009

davidst said:
But I like the idea of blackening, as long as there is no gunk build-up in the hole, which then needs cleaning back to shiny metal. Or is the steel black all the way through?

Any blueing (or blackening), either chemical or heat treatment, is limited to the outer few microns. So yes, the inside would still be silver. If you use the "heat it up and quench in oil" method, you'd want to use a thin oil - Whale oil used to be preferred, but nowadays, perhaps a 3-in-1 would be easier to obtain. Be warned, the vapours will be highly flamable, so do it outside.

EASmithV · Jun 11, 2009

paul_c5x4 said:
If you use steel, heating up to a dull red and then quenching will turn it black. Many years ago, used to use old engine oil to quench wrought iron work in - With current health & safety rules, you'd be better off using clean oil.

Case hardening?

davidst · Jun 12, 2009

What an active forum! Great hearing so many diverse views, and beaut ideas right across the spectrum. I just love people who THINK, so many of the flock don't. Thanks for your support since I joined only a couple of days ago.

The blackening by chemicals has given me an idea. I've still got some sheet sterling silver left over from a bit of silversmithing I had fun with in the past...another "hobby" I must find time for again. So I can punch a fine hole, then heavily tarnish eg blacken the silver using what the trade calls "Liver of Salts" makes rotten egg gas H2S. Stinks but will turn the hole and the whole piece nice and black. Of course still hope the hole doesn't develop any gunk, as reaming to clean for perfect hole, will "resilver" the hole and cause flare.

I'll keep codging...There must be something rigid, that's black, which will take a pin punch, that's not metal...

davidst · Jun 12, 2009

DWThomas;811326 I don't actually punch the pinhole said:
Raising a pimple and sanding, is a great way to get a variable size hole, by the degree of sanding. It also would stretch the metal, making it thinner than the undeformed stock. The pinhole must be in very, very thin material. Otherwise the light train is like going down a tunnel. It must be thin so the light defracts immediately around the edges.

We are nearly there...

I have just measured my old hole... pinhole that is. It is 0.4mm (1/64" for you non metric types), and at 120mm from the film plane it is f200, and covered a 4x5 piece of 100iso film. I'd reckon 1/64th should be a relatively easy drill size to get, so can consider drilling through v. thin super black plastic sheet, when I find it.

The Holga landscape pinhole cameras have black plastic pinholes.

It's all about the hole Johnny9fingers, so I hope I haven't highjacked your post. Get your camera suitable for the film, but think about the hole. If youve got an old folder, just take the lens out and put a pinhole there, nice easy film transport already incorporated.

johnny9fingers · Jun 12, 2009

2F/2F said:
I have a Mamiya Universal Polaroid setup (3x4, not 4x5) that I might think about trading, but I am ignorant as to Pentax's digital offerings. Does the K20D take old manual K mount lenses? I sometimes want a digital with more resolution than my Canon 10D.

Thanks for the offer 2F/2F, but I just picked up a Mamiya Universal Press with the 127mm lens and a few boxes of the old Polaroid 655 (665?) pos/neg film. Now I have me eye set on a Konica Instant Press. And yes, the K20D will take the K mount lenses.

John

johnny9fingers · Jun 12, 2009

No worries DaveT, sometimes we find little nuggets of info we wouldn't normally get if the thread held firm to the topic. It's all good. Now that I have the Mamiya Universal I'm looking into the best ways to rig it for pinhole work. It seems it can be as simple as a hole in tin foil, to a precisely machined brass pinhole with mounted shutter. This is just too much fun........John

jaimeb82 · Jun 12, 2009

geoferrell said:
I've got a Mamiya Universal with Polariod back and just tried the FP-100C instant color film, which makes great pictures, but I am unable to make an image transfer. It was my first attempt and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with the Fuji materials for image transfers. I think this material is also available in 4x5, and a black and white FP-3000B polaroid type is rated at EI 3200. And the Mamiya is great, but for 4x5 the Speed or Crown Graphic cameras are great and can be inexpensive.

not sure about image transfer, but there is a dude in Spain that with the FP-100C part that you put in the trash? makes the negative of that actual picture to show up, ready to go into the enlarger. The method is simple, you use a brush and regular bleach and brush the dark side and the negative appears like magic. The bleach can only go into one side of the negative, I guess the non emulsion side, if it goes on the other side it destroys the image. After that you washed to get rid of the bleach. It only works with the Fuji.

johnny9fingers · Jun 12, 2009

jaimeb82 said:
not sure about image transfer, but there is a dude in Spain that with the FP-100C part that you put in the trash? makes the negative of that actual picture to show up, ready to go into the enlarger. The method is simple, you use a brush and regular bleach and brush the dark side and the negative appears like magic. The bleach can only go into one side of the negative, I guess the non emulsion side, if it goes on the other side it destroys the image. After that you washed to get rid of the bleach. It only works with the Fuji.

Do you have to do the bleach processing right away, or can you store a batch of them and do it later?

jaimeb82 · Jun 12, 2009

johnny9fingers said:
Do you have to do the bleach processing right away, or can you store a batch of them and do it later?

He said he went to the trunk of his car and collected old ones and it worked for all.

Actually here is a nice illustration of the process:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pacorocha/sets/72157619006319867/

I am going to try myself this weekend if family business permits

johnny9fingers · Jun 12, 2009

Thanks for the PM Jaimeb82. That is a neat process. I will be trying it as well......

John

4 X 5 camera & Fuji Instant Film

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