3M Spray adhesive to mount prints?

GraemeMitchell · Nov 15, 2009

dancqu said:
I've found a couple of more which have passed the PAT
one of which is a Gudy 870

I've recently been researching the Gudy material (also available via Light Impressions) as a solution to mount prints in an album for an editioned portfolio.

I noticed first that it's somewhat expensive, which is fine if it's a good solution but it makes it a bit painful to buy just to experiment with. So I'm curious about what it's like to work with. Say with prints 11x14" and smaller, can they be mounted cleanly by hand or if it really takes a cold press to do it even with small prints?

Steve Roberts · Nov 16, 2009

I've never been at one with spray mount, not just for photos but any application. Always had trouble with the spray getting everywhere, nothing coming out, shortly followed by a huge gob of glue and the fact that sooner or later it seemed to peel at the edges. My preferred method of mounting is Daler self-adhesive board, for which I pay somewhere between £3.50 and £4.50 for an A1 sheet, depending on whether there's a special offer on it.

Steve

dancqu · Nov 16, 2009

Shop Talas

GraemeMitchell said:
I've recently been researching the Gudy material
(also available via Light Impressions) as a solution
to mount prints in an album for an editioned portfolio.

Talas has a couple of Gudys, one for $26; 12in x 33ft.
Have a mind to order a roll. Dan

Analog Soul Photo · Nov 17, 2009

What the 3m rep said was true, but the fact is it may be ph neutral now, but these things do change. It is not an "archival" product by any stretch of the imagination. I am a professional picture framer and have been for 20 years. I have studied conservation framing and archival permanence issues. I would equate the ph neutral quality of 3m adhesives (77, Photo Mount, Vacu Mount, etc.) to that of a "paper" or "regular" mat board. The companies that manufacture these call them "acid free"...but in the case of these products, they have a buffer that makes them ph neutral and this is what they are referring to. Only problem is that this buffer breaks down over time, the mat darkens to a shade of yellow or brown and starts leaching acids into whatever it's touching.

In the case of the spray glue adhesive, and even dry mounting methods, if you want or need your item flat, then go ahead and do it. It's not an "archival" way to do mounting because it is not reversible. There are dry mounting tissues (like one called "Fusion") that claim to be reversible, but I've never tried it. I tell my customers that it's a trade off... and ask them "Do you want your art to be absolutely flat, or do you want it to be preserved for the next 20+ years?" If your goal is to sell to the general public or for presentations where the image is mounted directly on top of a mat board, then obviously, you have to go this route, but if you are making nice fiber paper prints mounted in window mats, then you can use better archival methods.

Sorry if I'm rambling! Obviously conservation framing and photography are things I'm very passionate about ;-)

vdonovan · Nov 17, 2009

I use 3m photo spray quite a bit to mount gifts for friends. If I'm going over to someone's house for dinner, I can flush-mount a few prints in ten minutes. It *is* a PITA, since it can be tricky to keep the spray off the front of the print. I don't assume it's archival.

Like others here, I use dry mount tissue for gallery or work for sale. I don't have my own press, but I've mounted plenty of 8x10s using a clothes iron. I did this once to get some last minute stuff ready for a show and it worked so well that now I do it for most 8x10s. For larger prints I borrow a press.

If I were a little more organized, I could probably dry mount as quickly as I can spray mount and avoid the fumes and mess, but I'm not a little more organized...

JBrunner · Nov 17, 2009

Archival is ill defined. In the case of print mounting, it seems to mean that it is a reversible process using fairly inert materials. The only dry mount that I will use is Bienfang Buffermount. It is a dry mount tissue that is inert and reversible. It lifts back off if heated back up in a press. This can be done with other drymount tissue, but the Buffermount does it easily without residue. Now that I print mainly on watercolor paper I have ceased dry mounting all together. In regard to the OP I can't understand why one would want to use a spray mount with all the inherent mess, fumes, predilection for bubbles and wrinkles, overspray issues, and expense, when prints can be properly dry mounted using a clothes iron and dry mount tissue quite easily. Even the Buffermount would be less expensive (and it is spendy).

BetterSense · Nov 17, 2009

In regard to the OP I can't understand why one would want to use a spray mount with all the inherent mess, fumes, predilection for bubbles and wrinkles, overspray issues, and expense, when prints can be properly dry mounted using a clothes iron and dry mount tissue quite easily.

I didn't know that one could use a clothes iron. It makes sense now that it's mentioned. How large of prints can be iron-mounted? Should I turn the iron all the way up? Should I put a layer of tshirt material over the print for the ironing?

RalphLambrecht · Nov 17, 2009

Analog Soul Photo said:
What the 3m rep said was true, but the fact is it may be ph neutral now, but these things do change. It is not an "archival" product by any stretch of the imagination. I am a professional picture framer and have been for 20 years. I have studied conservation framing and archival permanence issues. I would equate the ph neutral quality of 3m adhesives (77, Photo Mount, Vacu Mount, etc.) to that of a "paper" or "regular" mat board. The companies that manufacture these call them "acid free"...but in the case of these products, they have a buffer that makes them ph neutral and this is what they are referring to. Only problem is that this buffer breaks down over time, the mat darkens to a shade of yellow or brown and starts leaching acids into whatever it's touching.

In the case of the spray glue adhesive, and even dry mounting methods, if you want or need your item flat, then go ahead and do it. It's not an "archival" way to do mounting because it is not reversible. There are dry mounting tissues (like one called "Fusion") that claim to be reversible, but I've never tried it. I tell my customers that it's a trade off... and ask them "Do you want your art to be absolutely flat, or do you want it to be preserved for the next 20+ years?" If your goal is to sell to the general public or for presentations where the image is mounted directly on top of a mat board, then obviously, you have to go this route, but if you are making nice fiber paper prints mounted in window mats, then you can use better archival methods.

Sorry if I'm rambling! Obviously conservation framing and photography are things I'm very passionate about ;-)

I agree with you on the spray mounts. As I said, I wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole, but aren't you too harsh on dry mounting. At least we have some data reaching back 50 odd years through Ansel Adams prints, which are still fine. Some even argue that the dry mount tissue acts as a barrier between the back of the print and air-born pollutants trying to penetrate the mount board from the back. Who knows for sure?

Also, why does 'non-reversal' equal 'non-archival'. Who's definition is that? According to the IPI, 'archival' should be replaced by 'life-expectancy' and measured in years, as in LE-100. To the me, the mounted and matted print is the final product, because I don't sell lose prints. Consequently, I'm interested in an archival combo.

Morry Katz · Nov 17, 2009

The life and condition of a print should not be determined by the life and condition of the substrate. Simply suspension mount the print to the backing board with acid-free linen tape, from the top corners. If the board deteriorates, simply cut the tape and re-mount to another board. The mat will hold the print flat.
Apply a small piece of tape to the back of the print at each corner and then apply a larger piece of tape across the first one from the front. Tape only touches the top 1/2" of the print. It's easy, quick, safe & cheap.
Morry Katz - Lethbridge Canada

vdonovan · Nov 17, 2009

Dry mounting with a clothes iron:

Dead Link Removed

Coincidentally, I have exactly the same iron as that dude. I had it for years and never got it out of the box until I started mounting my own prints.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 17, 2009

Morry Katz said:
The life and condition of a print should not be determined by the life and condition of the substrate. Simply suspension mount the print to the backing board with acid-free linen tape, from the top corners. If the board deteriorates, simply cut the tape and re-mount to another board. The mat will hold the print flat.
Apply a small piece of tape to the back of the print at each corner and then apply a larger piece of tape across the first one from the front. Tape only touches the top 1/2" of the print. It's easy, quick, safe & cheap.
Morry Katz - Lethbridge Canada

I'm afraid the 100% cotton rag mount board will be just fine, long after the print is gone. The substrate is not (or at least must not be) the weakest part of the chain. The still remaining Gutenberg bibles show no sign of deterioration after almost 600 years (just featured on German TV). That's a life expectancy a gelatin emulsion can only dream of, unless it was stored in temperature and humidity conditions, normal mortals cannot provide.

Considering more realistic storage conditions, a high-quality mount board poses no danger to a print. Primes concerns are improper processing, environmental pollutants and whatever else future generations come up with.

dancqu · Nov 17, 2009

Have One's Cake and Eat it Too!

Analog Soul Photo said:
I tell my customers that it's a trade off... and ask them
"Do you want your art to be absolutely flat, or do you
want it to be preserved for the next 20+ years?"

Absolutely flat AND meeting any conservators most
stringent demands; wheat or rice starch mounting.

There must be somebody somewhere who has at
least some little experience with wet paste
mounting. Dan

naugastyle · Dec 27, 2009

jeffreyg said:
No, I don't use any glues. If the print is framed I use archival backing plus the mount board and then an over mat. If the print is to be framed by the recipient I just use the mount board and let the framer do the rest (with my recommendations). An eight ply over mat has a great look but should be done with a computer guided mat cutter. We have a local frame shop that is very knowledgeable about handling photographs and has all the correct equipment and frames for museums etc.. Also I do platinum/palladium and it is not recommended to dry mount those.
Jeff

Just wondering if at some point the previously flattened print will lose that flatness in the corners/edges, but due to being tacked/pressed down at those spots, will then show this curl through the center instead? I have not ironed any of my FB prints yet so they're all mostly flat through the centers with slightly curled or rippled edges. I tried taking one of these prints and putting it in a frame to see how it looks. While the mat actually hides & holds down the rippled edges well, there is just a slight ballooning out in the center. It looks like it might be barely touching the glass.

3M Spray adhesive to mount prints?

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