3d Printed Film Holders?

[John Patrick Garriga]

Hey, gang.

I was wondering if it would be at all possible to 3d print QUALITY film holders. I have enough 4x5 holders, but I'd like to get into 8x10 one of these days and the only thing holding me back from that currently is the cost of the film holders. I'd probably get the intrepid 8x10 and put a reducing back so I don't have to buy a 4x5 field camera, along with an 8x10 field camera on top of my monorail. The biggest issue I could think of is the slide, but I don't see why a plastic slide wouldn't work. Do y'all know of a good printer? I've heard good about the Ender 3. It's cheap. I have a relative that uses one but I know the prints take a while. How precise is that system?

On a side note, would it be possible to 3d print an 8x10 back for the intrepid 4x5 system? That'd probably do me better than buying an 8x10 system and using a 4x5 converter, since I'll definitely be shooting 4x5 more often. I don't want to carry around a big 8x10 camera when I'll only be using a quarter of it but I don't want to buy three cameras if I don't have to.

Thanks,
JP

 

[grat]

There are a couple of film holder designs on Thingiverse, designed to be printed in layers/pieces and assembled. For the slide, you're probably better off finding some aluminum sheet you can get cut to size, or some thin ABS plastic (I think I've seen it as thin as 1.25mm).

Accuracy and precision should both be in the 0.1mm area. Layer height can be ridiculously thin (0.1mm, according to the website), but of course, the thinner the layer, the more layers to print, and the slower overall.

Make sure the bed is large enough to accommodate the largest part of the model-- a 200mm bed maxes out at a little under 7.5 inches (you usually can't print all the way to the edge).

PLA will be rigid, but won't tolerate temperatures over 100F (well, it will, but it will start getting soft around 110-120F, depending on the specific filament). PETG+ has a little bit of flex, but is harder, and less susceptible to heat. PLA+ is somewhere in between those two. ABS and Nylon can both be tricky as they shrink while cooling, and printing those in an open 3D printer can be challenging.

 

[abruzzi]

when I first got an 8x10 I chafed at the cost of the film holders. But you will likely shoot a lot less 8x10 compared to 4x5, so honestly, 2 holders is probably enough to get you through a few years of shooting (I never go out with more than 2, 8x10 holders, but I requently go out with a dozen 4x5 holders.) My reccomendation would be to go to https://bluemooncamera.com/ and they usually have a pair of late model 8x10 holders for $150, which is about the best price I've found for very good condition later holders. Sure you could try 3d printing, but I personally value my time too much.

 

[ic-racer]

As abruzzi mentions, you will likely won't need many. I almost never go out with more than 3 holders. Usually I'll just shoot 5 images at a time. Just enough for the Jobo drum which takes 5.

They are pretty heavy along with a 300mm lens, camera and heavy-duty tripod and a meter.

I'd just pay the money and get a couple nice ones.

I thought I overpaid for two brand new 8x10 Lisco in box at $75 each a few years ago. Now look at the price. So I think they will keep on going up in price. Just don't drop one with the darkslide part way out...broken darkslides are hard to replace.

 

[Donald Qualls]

A 3D printed dark slide likely won't be as opaque as you'd like; most PLA and PETG is only opaque in thickness of around a millimeter or more. Further, straightness of the dark slide might be a problem.

 

[Jimskelton]

I've designed an printed compact non standard sized 4x5 holders for my Polaroid cameras and they work fine without light leaks. They are not QUALITY film holders, but are FUNCTIONAL. You can't pull the dark slide out completely, and they are made for 4"x5" negatives, not 3.9"x4.9" ones. You can check out how I did it at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5254398 --I started out by printing just the rails and building it out of mat board. Later, I designed the whole holder, though it takes a good 8 hours to print.

For a dark slide, I started with using bristle board, which worked fine with paper negatives, but wasn't light tight for high speed negatives. I switched over to using black plastic casing from a file folder. It slides easily and keeps the light out with ISO 400 film.

This just to say that it can be done on the 4x5 scale. I'm going to try designing and printing 5x7 holders someday. I think that should be possible.

But 8x10? One problem with the Ender 3 V2 (which I have) is the bed size. You can print up to around 8.5" in all dimensions, so you wouldn't be able to print a full sized 8x10 holder without expanding the printer at least in one dimension, which can be done but costs more $$. Of course, it probably wouldn't be worth it to purchase a printer just to print up a few film holders unless you're planning on using it for other things. From personal experience, I can't imagine life without a 3D printer...

I managed to make a double sided 8x10 film holder out of wood using just a 2x4, 1/2" plywood, and black mat board for the dark slide. You need a table saw to do this. It's not a QUALITY holder, but it does work.

I'm thinking that 3d printing an 8x10 back would be impractical because of the amount of material used. I would think it would be better to build something like that out of wood. Be aware though, that the back of a large format camera is a little tricky to build.

 

[MTGseattle]

I applaud anyone who wants to home-brew photography gear. I look at 8x10 this way; the film is so expensive I want to have zero questions regarding my film holders. I've sourced nos Toyo holders of 2 versions (one has metal tab slides, the other has plastic). I had thought about trying to refurbish some beat-up wooden holders, but I decided against it for now.

 

[koraks]

How precise is that system?

Not as precise as you'd ideally want for critical components like a film holder. Moreover, 3D printing is a skill. There are hundreds of parameters (on top of material & equipment choices) that all contribute and interact to determine the quality of the outcome. It's not really a turnkey solution if optimal quality is required. It's easy to print something fun, it's challenging to print something really, really well.

Frankly, for an 8x10 holder, I'd consider getting some used ones - just bite the bullet; you spend a couple of hundred on a camera, and you should view the holders as essentially part of that system. If that really isn't possible, making something out of wood, metal or plastic building blocks is more sensible IMO than printing a piece like this. Heck, if you're considering DIY-ing this with CAD/CAM techniques, it would make more sense IMO to mill a holder from a block of suitable material than to print one.

Same with your 8x10 extension to your 4x5 camera, which frankly doesn't make much sense to me. The Intrepids are nice for the ultra-low price point, but as such, they're flimsy, rickety contraptions. I've got an 8x10 and although I like how lightweight it is, it really is a marginal affair altogether. I wouldn't even dream of trying to put a lot of extra bulk and weight to one to get to a larger format. You'll just end up warping everything out of whack. Might as well start over and build an 8x10 from the ground up.

But first and foremost, I agree with @MTGseattle : 8x10 is an inherently expensive hobby. Do it if you feel it's necessary, and if so, accept that it's going to cost a pretty penny.

 

[grahamp]

You can find black anodized aluminium for dark slides or the centre septum. The hardest bit is the finger stock (spring) for the blackout seal on the darkslide opening. If you already have a capable printer and enough experience to print long dimension parts accurately, you then have to factor the parts cost - filament, power (which most people ignore, but is becoming noticeable at a domestic level these days), non-printable parts in suitable quantities, and time to print and assemble.

Decent used 8x10 holders run from $75- $125, last time I checked. I don't think it is worth the effort at present, but if the numbers work for you, by all means give it a go.

As far as putting an 8x10 back on a 4x5 camera, I suggest you draw it out, both as a 5x7 extension, and then an 8x10. Pay attention to the angle of view and the separation of the film and lens panel at infinity. You will see the limits of the possible range of lens focal lengths, and the constraints on movement.

 

[maltfalc]

you'd be better off making them out of wood with a router table or small table saw. save the 3d printer for more complex things.

 

[IMetodiev]

I've been 3d printing a lot of camera stuff (and whole LF cameras) for quite a while, and I can vouch that it's not a process readily suited to the making of precision film holders. It will take way too much time, trial and error, materials and frustration to make it worth your while, compared to just getting some used ones and giving them some TLC.

 

[Jimskelton]

I've been 3d printing a lot of camera stuff (and whole LF cameras) for quite a while, and I can vouch that it's not a process readily suited to the making of precision film holders. It will take way too much time, trial and error, materials and frustration to make it worth your while, compared to just getting some used ones and giving them some TLC.

I have also printed lots of camera related stuff and have successfully printed 4x5 film holders that are light tight. I started with just the sides, which are the most important and contain the tracks that holds the dark slide and lip that holds the paper, and assembled with a mat board body. Then later on printed the whole holder.

I didn't have a 4x5 holder to copy. I just designed it to function. It may be if you tried to copy a film holder exactly, it would be quite difficult to make the end which loads the film, the dark slide entrance, etc. Mine are simple, load differently, and the dark slide can't be pulled completely out, but work.