38mm Schneider Anastigmat -- What Is It??

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 8, 2014

I have this 38mm Schneider Anastigmat in Compur #00 shutter and I have no clue what it's from. Maybe an old folder? It might cover 135 format but perhaps only 24x24mm or half frame. Does anyone know about this lens? I bought it for the shutter but I want to know if I'll make a grievous error if I remove the cells and toss them. BTW, google found nothing.

Dan Fromm · Nov 8, 2014

Do the obvious stupid thing. Ask the lens whether it is a triplet or a tessar. Count reflections. Either way its nothing special.

summicron1 · Nov 8, 2014

wide angle lens for a 2 by 3 speed graphic?

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 8, 2014

Dan Fromm said:
Do the obvious stupid thing. Ask the lens whether it is a triplet or a tessar. Count reflections. Either way its nothing special.

Front: 4 reflections, all strong
Rear: 3 reflections, 2 strong + 1 faint

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 8, 2014

summicron1 said:
wide angle lens for a 2 by 3 speed graphic?

Good thought but this lens may not even cover 135 format.

Dan Fromm · Nov 8, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
Front: 4 reflections, all strong
Rear: 3 reflections, 2 strong + 1 faint

Xenar by another name. Nothing special and absolutely not a wide angle lens. f/3.5 tessar types do well to cover their focal lengths.

Summicron1, according to the bible, 10th edition, the shortest original issue lens for the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic (minimum extension 61.9 mm) is the 80/6.3 Wide Field Ektar; for the Miniature Speed Graphic (minimum extension 58.7 mm), 90/6.8 Raptar. 65/6.8 Raptars and Angulons were offered for 2x3 Crown and Century Graphics, won't make infinity on a 2x3 Speed. I had a 65 Raptar, tried it on my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed. No go.

More seriously, in the early '50s when the OP's mystery lens was made, there were no 38 mm lenses around, including unheard of and very rare ancient lenses, that would cover 2x3. The contemporary 38/4.5 Biogon covers 84 mm (guess how I know that). I have a 45/9 CZJ Goerz Dagor from the late 30s that covers 2x3 (just) but it won't make infinity on a 2x3 Speed. Don't waste your time looking, its not in the catalogs. And then there's the mythical 45/14 Perigraphe, equally unusable on a 2x3 Speed.

I'd love to be proven wrong about the existence of 38 mm lenses that cover 2x3 in the early '50s.

summicron1 · Nov 8, 2014

I suspect mr. Fromm is correct, my guess was only half serious. Still, one never knows.

I don't know of any folders that had a 38mm lens -- that would be awfully short for a camera that used 127 film, even half frame. My Vollenda has a 50 on it. So do most of my folder 35mm cameras.

On the other hand, it's not impossible. Someone trying to make a very compact folder might have put a 38 on it. There were some made with 35s, the folks at Zeiss made hundreds of different lens/camera combinations that never even made the catalogs.

And we are all assuming, of course, that these are the original lens elements in this shutter?

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 8, 2014

Thanks, folks. Were there any 135 half frame folders made? At this point this is just curiosity.

ic-racer · Nov 8, 2014

Leica wasn't the only early 35mm camera. Plenty of 'oddball' cameras with lenses and shutters like in the original post:

http://corsopolaris.net/supercameras/early/early_135.html

Here is one with a 44mm lens.

Here is one with a 35mm lens:

Dan Fromm · Nov 9, 2014

Hey, ic, they lens' serial number says it was made around 1950. That's a bit, um, late for it to have been made for an early 35 mm camera.

paul ewins · Nov 9, 2014

The production notes say it is a Xenar, made for Goldeck. Goldeck is actually a type of 6x6 made by Goldammer, so the lens would would obviously have been for some other Goldammer project. They also made a 4x4 and a 16mm camera but I haven't been able to find anything that would use a 38mm lens, although a half frame camera would seem obvious. There were around 600 units produced for them in a few batches in early 1951, so whatever it was may have disappeared with little trace.

Hatchetman · Nov 9, 2014

That is even more confusing. There was a similar Schneider lens put on an Instamatic.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/captkodak/271885559/in/pool-camerapedia/

ic-racer · Nov 9, 2014

Dan Fromm said:
Hey, ic, they lens' serial number says it was made around 1950. That's a bit, um, late for it to have been made for an early 35 mm camera.

Yes, and Anastigmat is pretty 'modern' and the shutter goes to 1/500, consistent with 1950s. Perhaps form a 35mm camera of that older style that was somewhat 'outdated' for its time. What do you think it came from?

Old-N-Feeble · Nov 10, 2014

Thanks, everyone, for the interesting responses so far.

Paul... where can I find those "production notes"?

paul ewins · Nov 10, 2014

They are a series of books by Hartmut Thiele that basically transcribe the manufacturers production lists. I only have the three Schneider books but he also did the same for Zeiss, Voigtlander and Rodenstock too. It's like a big printed spreadsheet, sorted by serial number, with columns for the production date, lens name, aperture, focal length, batch size, first serial number in batch, last serial number in batch, customer, camera/mount and a last column of comments which might include shutter size if it was an LF lens for instance. Often one or all of the last three columns is blank. I'm not sure if the Zeiss etc. books have more or less information.

I bought my copies from leicashop.com in Austria : http://www.leicashop.com/brandnew_e...schneider-kreuznach-band-1-thiele-skusk1.html

One downside is that they are written in German, of which I only understand a little, but it is fairly simple to follow. The bigger downside is that it is all on paper so you can't resort them like you could if it was electronic.

Ian Grant · Nov 10, 2014

The 38mm f2.8 Xenar was normally in a Compur or Prontor 00 sized shutter it's probable yours was made for a Goldeck 35mm camera I'd guess with a similar square frame format to the Tenax, Agfa Karat and Rapid cameras, also later126. There's no way it would cover full frame 35mm properly and definitely not 127 (4x4) or 120 (6x6).

Goldeck did make some 35mm cameras, they aren't as common as their 6x6 and 16mm cameras, one went unsold earlier this year in the UK, the photos have gone from the Ebay listing infortunately.

If you can find a copy of H S Newcombe's Miniature Cameras from the early 50's you'd see he lists many cameras, some complete systems , from companies that had a very short life span.

Ian

randyB · Nov 10, 2014

Could it be a lens made for close-up photography of coins/stamps/fingerprints on the 2x3 format? Not intended for infinity focus. I've seen the Componan, Componar enlarging lenses in shutters for this purpose, perhaps this is a variant for special use. Please don't "toss" the cells away, you can send them to me and I'll play with them. RandyB

Ian Grant · Nov 11, 2014

randyB said:
Could it be a lens made for close-up photography of coins/stamps/fingerprints on the 2x3 format? Not intended for infinity focus. I've seen the Componan, Componar enlarging lenses in shutters for this purpose, perhaps this is a variant for special use. Please don't "toss" the cells away, you can send them to me and I'll play with them. RandyB

Highly unlikely. The Goldeck 6x6 cameras are rather simple construction so was the 35mm camera. It's not a coincidence that the 38mm f2.8 Xenar was used on some Instamatics.

In addition the Xenar is not optimised for close focusing, the reason Schneider sold Compons in shutters as macro lenses ais they are optimised for close working.

Ian

Someonenameddavid · Dec 11, 2014

Probably for a less than full size image on 127 film...

38mm Schneider Anastigmat -- What Is It??

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