360mm lens for 4x5 and 8x10 (future use)

nikonf · Feb 28, 2006

I would like to know if one of the experts that has been using multiple formats would be able to suggest a 360mm lens for use with a 4x5 Arca-Swiss and a yet to be purchased 8x10 camera or back in the near future.
Would I get the best bang for the buck by purchasing one of the 360mm W series lenses by Fuji, Nikon, Rodenstock or Nikon?
Can anyone offer a preference based on actual use?

I now have lenses ranging from 90mm to 210mm.

Would the Rodenstock Sironar-S or Schneider equivalent be preferable to the Fuji or Nikkor versions or are they virtually indistinguishable in real world use?

The new German lenses are a great deal more money than the Rodenstock Sironar-N Fuji-W, and Nikkor-W 360mm lenses.

Many thanks,
Mike

df cardwell · Feb 28, 2006

14" Commercial Ektar. Based on 30 years of actual use.

Only drawback, a big shutter for the Arca. Look for a tessar type in a #3 copal.

epatsellis · Feb 28, 2006

I can tell you you don't want a 360 f5.6 symmar or componon, they make everything else look small.

erie

John Kasaian · Feb 28, 2006

A 14" COmmercial Ektar might be too big for your 4x5 as they usually come mounted in Universal #5s. A 355 G Claron would probably be a better fit.

resummerfield · Feb 28, 2006

Thats a tough call, Mike. I think most of the modern lenses of that focal length and aperture have similar performance, although I havent tested anything other than Rodenstock. I have one 360 for both 4x5 and 8x10a Sironar S. Its very sharp, but its also so big and so heavy, that in practice I rarely use it on the 4x5. My choice would be to go with the lightest lens in the smallest aperture you can live with. Something like the 355 G-Claron, or maybe the Fuji CMW if you needed a faster aperture.

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 28, 2006

I have a 355 Schneider G Claron and a 360mm Fujinon W, both are fantastic lenses and both cover 8x10 with movements. I agree that the 355 G Claron would be a better fit for a 4x5 (the 360 Fuji is quite large and heavy).

The 305mm Schneider G-Claron is a great lens that also covers 8x10 with movements and is considerably smaller than the 355mm G-Claron. The same comments apply to the Docter Optics 300mm Apo-Germinar W (don't know if Kerry Thalman has any of these lenses left - you might check).

Eric Leppanen · Mar 1, 2006

The Fujinon 360A f/10 is a modern design which is frequently available multi-coated, has a relatively small Copal 1 shutter, a huge 500mm image circle, and weighs only 465g. It was discontinued years ago but still pops up several times a year on Ebay, and typically sells for $1000-1500. IMHO it is not quite as sharp as the Sironar-S (I once owned a copy of both of these lenses), but if you are looking for a modern, relatively lightweight multi-coated lens for both 4x5 and 8x10, the 360A is about the only game in town.

The huge 360mm plasmats may be cheaper (a used APO Symmar 360 sells for around $1,000, the Nikkor W or Symmar-S are even cheaper), but you pay a big price in terms of weight and bulk. You also need to be careful that the huge rear element fits through the lens board opening on your 4x5.

If your 4x5 has sufficient bellows extension, another option is to purchase a Fuji 300C or Nikkor 300M (roughly $500-600 used) and Fuji 450C (roughly $800 used). These lenses are far more readily available, are small and lightweight, and quite sharp. The 300C covers 8x10 with moderate movements (coverage with the 300M is a bit tighter), and the 450C covers 8x10 with extensive movements.

Capocheny · Mar 1, 2006

epatsellis said:
I can tell you you don't want a 360 f5.6 symmar or componon, they make everything else look small.

erie

Eric,

I have a 360 Symmar-S f6.8 that I've been using with my 4x5 for the past several years. It's a GREAT piece of glass! Tack sharp...

But, as epatsellis said, it DOES make everything else look small! It's a HUGE chunk of glass!

If you're looking to carry it out into the field... hire a Sherpa!

Cheers

kjsphoto · Mar 1, 2006

I have the 360 Symmar-S f6.8 also and backpack with it everywhere! I woudl highly recommmend this lens. Tact sharp and a pleasure to use!

Cheers..

df cardwell · Mar 1, 2006

It's a neat problem, like trying to find a Porsche to haul sheetrock.

A way to move forward might be to think about the nature of the image you'd like,
and possibly adjust the Focal length to suit.... and remove the constraint of one lens for both formats.

Probably end up with better lenses for your purpose, for less.

Scott-Tx · Mar 1, 2006

i have a 355 Gold Dot Dagor labeled schneider, but made by kern in switzerland. it's small, exceedingly sharp, and works brilliantly on 8x10. if you don't believe me, ask the oft revered jim galli how he feels about his... it's hands-down my favorite lens.

mjs · Mar 1, 2006

You might also consider a Red Dot Artar. While still a larger lens (as will be just about any 360mm lens,) it's much lighter than a plasmat, about half the cost, and has superb performance. I did not find that the f/9 maximum aperture to be a problem (as would be expected on a lens of longer focall length.)

mjs

jimgalli · Mar 1, 2006

Scott-Tx said:
i have a 355 Gold Dot Dagor labeled schneider, but made by kern in switzerland. it's small, exceedingly sharp, and works brilliantly on 8x10. if you don't believe me, ask the oft revered jim galli how he feels about his... it's hands-down my favorite lens.

If $$ is no problem, the 355 Kern Produced for Schneider Gold Dot dagor is perhaps the finest choice. I adore mine. But there's a huge gap between a Fuji f6.3 for around $400 and the Dagor for maybe $1200. The 355 G-Claron is definitely a contender in the $650 range. They are sharp as anything and if 8X10 is only a passing fancy and you wake up with a 12X20 sleeping next to you, the G-Claron will cover. I was up on a steep hillside in the ancient bristlecomes where I had to use massive front fall for a tryptich I envisioned. The 355 GD ran out of coverage on that one, and the 355 G-Claron had to take over.

Frank Petronio · Mar 1, 2006

For people, the faster glass is definitely an advantage and worth the size and weight. For landscape, go with an f/9 lens and enjoy the savings.

harleygsb · Mar 1, 2006

I had the same dilemma and ended up getting the Fujinon 450mm. I go the Ebony tophat extension board, which gives plenty bellows on my Arca. I built a little baffles for the extension board, as the image circle is huge and there is a lot of light bouncing around in the tophat. It is a wonderfully sharp lens and quite small, almost too small for its copal 1 shutter. I am glad I went with the 450mm. I think the 360mm is a little short for length. I often wish I had more reach than the 450. Just an alternative to consider.

roteague · Mar 1, 2006

Can anyone comment on the Schneider Apo-Symmar "L" 5.6/300mm?

epatsellis · Mar 1, 2006

Capocheny said:
Eric,

I have a 360 Symmar-S f6.8 that I've been using with my 4x5 for the past several years. It's a GREAT piece of glass! Tack sharp...

But, as epatsellis said, it DOES make everything else look small! It's a HUGE chunk of glass!

If you're looking to carry it out into the field... hire a Sherpa!

Cheers

If I'm not mistaken, the 6.8 is quite a bit smaller and lighter than my 360 Symmar 5.6 (or my componon 360 5.6)

erie

John Kasaian · Mar 3, 2006

Another option worth considering would be a 14" APO Artar. Mine is in a #2-ish dial set Compur and is a sharp little lens. The dial set is smaller and lighter than a #3, so if your 4x5 balks at a 355mm G-Claron in a big ol' #3, you've got another option to consider. OTOH the 14" APO Artar dosen't offer a lot of wiggle room on 8x10, but enough to be worthwhile as long as you don't try making a pretzal out of the bellows.

claytume · Mar 3, 2006

I have a 60's vintage 360 Ronar which would be the equivalent of John's 14" Artar, same shutter, not much bigger than a copal 1. The real attraction to this lens is it's tiny size, takes about a 45mm filter. I don't think there's anything smaller and lighter in this focal length.

Clayton

herb · Mar 3, 2006

360mm lens

second the motion from Frank Petronio- I have a Nikon 360 F9 process mounted in a press type shutter and dearly love it. You can do moving water with the press shutter easily if you want to do the ol divide the exposure bit so as to get less movement of water, i.e. shoot four or five shots on the same film to build up to the final exposure.

360mm lens for 4x5 and 8x10 (future use)

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