360 mm (14") Dagor and Ektar lenses

Hi:

Does anyone have any remarks on comparisons and contrasts between 14" Dagor and Ektar lenses (or any other ideas), particularly in how they render tonality, micro-contrast and out of focus areas? I already have a contemporary 300mm lens for deep focus, high-detail landscape and abstract work, and am looking into another, slightly longer lens for portraiture or subdued color work, where at least some of the frame may be out of focus. I would like to tread the line between very good optical performance and and a pleasing, natural, more subtle palette. I am not seeking mushy, swirly vintage gimmicks either. The film equivalent to the feeling would be Portra NC rather than Ektar 100. The 8x10 negs would be either black and white or color, from contact prints to 20x24... Well, who knows, maybe the occasional 30x40 if things go really well with subject matter that creatively benefits from that scale...

Thanks.

Jarin

I can't speak for the Dagor but I do like the Kodak Commercial Ektar. The ones I use have a great bokeh but I am told that this is not because of the lens itself but rather the shutter, which has more blades than modern shutters. Below are some links to contact prints made from an 8x10 neg taken with a 14" Commercial Ektar. With this lens, the backgrounds can be out of focus in a very smooth way, except when there are very bright and small highlights, such as pin-points of light coming through trees. These pin-points become little "bubbles" which are really quite beautiful, in my opinion. I don't have any of those in my gallery, however.

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I shoot 10x8 with a 12" Dagor, it's a superb lens sharp with plenty of coverage, the 14" will have even more coverage. It'll depend on the age of the Dagor and whether it's coated when it comes to Colour, you might prefer a Commercial Ektar to an older Dagor for that reason.

Ian

I've never shot a Dagor. I do own a 14" Commercial Ektar. It's sharp but not clinically sharp which makes it great for portraits. It's great for anything actually. Yousuf Karsh used a 14" Commercial Ektar for most of his work. The Ektar was designed for color film and works well with color. The older Dagor was not.

There are people who swear by the 14" Dagor though. Some prefer it over the Commercial Ektar. Be aware that there were different versions of the Dagor. The later ones like Drew Wiley's Kern Dagor were said to be sharper. You might ask Drew about his.

I wish I could afford both along with a Heliar. All three give a different look. Then there is the Cooke triple convertible if you are willing to take out a car loan!

Yes, I'd be curious about Drew's thoughts. Were the Ektars all single coated? I'd prefer a gentler color palette as well - would I be better suited with the Ektar vs. a single-coated Dagor (which I hear still has relatively strong contrast)?

Presumably both were provided with many iris blades, which is a must in my opinion. One thing I don't like are the bokeh bubbles, and would rather a soft, silky out of focus background.

Even uncoated Dagors have good contrast, I tested a 120mm Dagor, CP Goerz, Berlin, early this year and was astonished at the difference between it and an un-coated 165mm f5.3 CZJ Tessar, it's certainly on a par with a coated Tessar.

Ian

My 14" Commercial Ektar was indeed single coated. I only shoot b&w with it but it is known for having that old color look. Of course films have changed over the years. I think it has a nice bokeh. Of course there are lenses out there with better bokeh.

I don't know if price is a consideration. I paid $600 for my 14" Commercial Ektar which is on the high side. It had a recent CLA before I bought it though. 14" Dagors command more money.

I had a 12" Commercial Ektar on my first 8x10 camera and it was a very nice lens. Sharp as I needed and very good in the contrast department. Sold the camera and lens. I ended up missing it and bought another 8x10 a couple years later. This one came with an uncoated 240mm f6.8 Dagor. Nice lens, but no shutter. Still, it took great photos with plenty of sharpness and very good contrast. Contrast wasn't as high as the Ektar, but I was shooting B&W and didn't care anyway. I sold the Dagor and now that 8x10 wears a uncoated convertible B&H Protar and I'm a very happy camper. You can buy some pretty cheap 8x10 lenses that will do a fine job and you can also buy some for the price of a used car. Me, I'll start cheap and work my way up. You might get lucky and find your "Love Lens" without going very high up that latter.