35mm SLR - why?

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Sirius Glass

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Unless I blow the money on a Hasselblad or a Mamiya RB67 or something like that first...


For less than the price of the top of the line Nikon or Canon digi-snapper and lens [~$8k] I purchased:
  • Nikon N-75
  • Nikon F-100
  • Nikon AF 28mm - 200m zoom
  • Nikon AF 20mm - 25mm zoom
  • Tamron AF 28mm - 300mm zoom
  • Nikon SB-800 strobe
  • Voightlander Vito II [35mm folder]
  • Certo Dolly SuperSport 120 folder with a Zeiss lens
  • Hasselblad 503 CX
  • Hasselblad CF 50mm lens
  • Hasselblad CF 80mm lens
  • Hasselblad CF 150mm lens
  • Hasselblad CF 250mm lens
  • Four Hasselblad extension tubes
  • A collection of Hasselblad filters
  • Hasselblad 2x extender
  • Hasselblad 903 SWC
  • 1919 Rotation Back Auto Graflex with 7 inch lens
  • Omega Chromega 5D-XL enlarger
  • Rodenstock 50mm enlarging lens
  • Rodenstock 80mm enlarging lens
  • 135mm enlarging lens
  • Arkey 26" wide drum print dryer
  • Various pieces of darkroom equipment
and I still have money left over!

Steve
 

SilverGlow

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No.

But I can see the images on my film negatives and transparencies. They're there.

And I can't see any images on or in my RAW, jpg, or tif computer files. They're not there.

NM.

Your argumments are a tempest in a teapot....you are a rebel without a cause ;-)

You write what you write, yet there are thousands of old timer film shooters that have successfully added digital photography to their toolbox and are making awesome images that way.

Go ahead, fight your windmills Don Quixote....
 

lxdude

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I tend like the weight and quality of something a bit older.

Now if I can get some of the women around where I live to think the same way...except the quality part...
 
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SilverGlow

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You have somehow lost your way, friend. You think it's about the medium.

It's about the picture!

It's the composition, and if the comp is heart moving, who cares what the medium is?

It's the Picture.

Pick Ture!
 

BradS

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You have somehow lost your way, friend. You think it's about the medium.

It's about the picture!

It's the composition, and if the comp is heart moving, who cares what the medium is?

It's the Picture.

Pick Ture!


Did you even read what he wrote?
 

wblynch

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I have the finest full-frame image sensor available in the world on my $50 camera. I get a fresh sensor with every shot and if I'm not happy with my sensor, I can change to any other sensor from multiple manufacturers in 30 seconds.

Can't do that with digital.
 

lxdude

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I don't really see much of a tempest. The point was that film gives a physical object which can be examined without having to be decoded by a machine. There is an image which exists in physical form. I think that is a valid reason. It is for me. I much prefer looking at a piece of film to looking at an image on a screen.
You have your reasons for using film. They are valid for you, and might not make sense for someone else. But they work for you.
 

2F/2F

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Naples

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And your argument is but an ad hominem attack that fails to controvert a single fact I wrote. Thanks for the compliment.

Once again:

"I can see the images on my film negatives and transparencies, because they are there.

But I can't see any images on or in my RAW, jpg, or tif computer files, because there are none there."

And, "thousands of old timer film shooters" who are now digitalistas can't change that fact.

 

Naples

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Spot on.

Although, if I may, I would reword your last sentence as, "I much prefer looking at a piece of film to looking at a computer file comprised of 1s and 0s."

Image on Film ≠ 1s and 0s
 

lxdude

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An excellent example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.:rolleyes:

Oh funny, indeed.
 

lxdude

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Spot on.

Although, if I may, I would reword your last sentence as, "I much prefer looking at a piece of film to looking at a computer file comprised of 1s and 0s."

Image on Film ≠ 1s and 0s

Well, I was referring specifically to examining the images in the forms in which they first appear. As you say, the digital images don't exist until they're on the screen.
 
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lxdude

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And a film image is clumps of silver halides or dye clouds. With film our eyes and brain are the computer.
And so they are with an image on a screen.
BTW, the silver halides are there when you buy the film. Development converts them to metallic silver if they have been exposed to light.
 
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film_man

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"I much prefer looking at a piece of film to looking at a computer file comprised of 1s and 0s."

Personally I neither like looking at 1s and 0s nor trying to decipher film negatives. I might go into the trouble of looking at slides with a loupe, but that's about it.

As far as I'm concerned, if it isn't on a piece of paper or on a screen (either projection or computer/TV) it is not a photo.
 

Naples

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Well, I was referring specifically to examining the images in the forms in which they first appear. As you say, the digital images don't exist until they're on the screen.
This brings to mind a misconception held by many digitalistas. The vast majority of the digitalistas I know (and love) think (or at least thought at one time) that the "thing" created by their digicamera and residing on their corruptible hard drive is an actual image, a "digital negative" if you will. Almost invariably they are surprised to learn that there is no image there, no "negative", but rather only a computer file comprised of 1s and 0s that software must decode to produce an image for display on a screen or to send to a printer.

To me, this has been the true marketing genius of the digital camera manufacturers and their cronies at Ritz et al. - get people to think their digicameras are creating and storing "images".
 
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telyt

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And what are real photographers - the ones who use glass plates - saying about floppy negatives?
 

Naples

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And what are real photographers - the ones who use glass plates - saying about floppy negatives?
They can't deny the extant image on the film negative; nor can they claim a computer file is an image.

So you're out of luck.

 

danegermouse

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but the image isn't available to be seen until it is developed (decoded) by chemicals (software)...

d.
 

Naples

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but the image isn't available to be seen until it is developed (decoded) by chemicals (software).
Chemical development of an image already physically embedded in film from the interaction of light upon the film ≠ Computer software decoding a computer file comprised of millions of 1s and 0s to create a digital image for a computer screen or digital printer.

More, once film is developed, it always has an extant, visible, physical image; computer files never do ... notwithstanding what that salesman at Ritz told you about "digital negatives".
 

telyt

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This is APUG, a supposed respite from the "digitalistas"

Please go away.

Here's my favorite camera:



They can't deny the extant image on the film negative; nor can they claim a computer file is an image.

So you're out of luck.


Glass plate photographers used to say: "film cannot be optically flat and for the miniature formats (smaller than 4x5) you need a machine to make a print. If you have to use an enlarger or projector to see it, it's not a real photograph." Do you notice any parallels? Or is there too much sand in your eyes?
 
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rippo

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I'd just like to remind everyone that:

a) this is my thread. Mine! I'm in charge!!! (well ok not really)

b) the thread is not about digital vs film. Really, it's not. Check the original post. It very specifically is NOT about digital vs film. The question is: what benefit does high-end 35mm SLR cameras provide a newbie coming from digital? I know what's special about other film camera types and formats, but wanted to know why one would bother with 35mm SLR (since it seems "almost digital" in use). I've been enlightened thoroughly. Thank you. But please, no more digital vs film arguments here. Surely there must be another thread for that?
 

telyt

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I'd just like to remind everyone that... The question is: what benefit does high-end 35mm SLR cameras provide a newbie coming from digital?

The high-end 35mm film camera I'm using can use either a film back or a digital back. Aside from the controls specific to either recording medium, all the other controls and functions are identical making it very easy to switch from one to the other.
 

SilverGlow

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This is, in fact, exactly the opposite of what I stated.

So then when you admire a fantastic picture shown at a show or exhibit or museum, your opinion of this picture does not change when you find out later that it was made with a digital camera? As to what I'd think, I would not care how it was photographed.
 
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