35mm slide/negative scanning without cropping?

[davidf]

I wondered if anyone could help me with the following query.

I am looking to purchase a 35mm slide/negative scanner for around and have been looking at various models such as the Reflecta ProScan 7200/RPS 7200 and a second hand Nikon Coolscan IV ED.

However, my question is about cropping on this kind of scanner in general. Ideally, I would like the scanned images of both negatives and slides to be not cropped at all e.g. in the case of slides, for the slide mount to be slightly visible around all four sides of the image, ensuring that the entirety of the image is captured.

I notice that on these kind of scanners the scannable area is generally only very slightly larger than what is needed to scan a full frame, e.g. 36.5mm wide scannable area for a 36mm wide frame therefore, I would assume that each slide/negative has to be positioned in the scanner incredibly accurately in order to get the full image without cropping. Is it possible to achieve accurate positioning with any of these scanners?

Also, given that a lot of these scanners use plastic holders for the slides/negatives, do these ever affect positioning for example, do four frames on one negative strip fit perfectly through each window in the plastic holder?

 

[Les Sarile]

Since the Coolscan IV uses the same accessories as the Coolscan 5000 which I owned, I am assuming the film handling is the same. Using the SA-21, you simply insert strips of up to 6 frames of film and it takes care of perfectly aligning each frame for scanning. With the MA-20, you can insert 1 mounted slide at a time. With an FH-3 filmholder, you can insert a strip of film - up to 6 frames, and manually scan one frame at a time. The SA-21 crops about 500 pixels at the top but with the FH-3 you get the whole frame as shown below.

Link to larger version -> Coolscan crop

 

[Aristophanes]

I wondered if anyone could help me with the following query.

I am looking to purchase a 35mm slide/negative scanner for around and have been looking at various models such as the Reflecta ProScan 7200/RPS 7200 and a second hand Nikon Coolscan IV ED.

However, my question is about cropping on this kind of scanner in general. Ideally, I would like the scanned images of both negatives and slides to be not cropped at all e.g. in the case of slides, for the slide mount to be slightly visible around all four sides of the image, ensuring that the entirety of the image is captured.

I notice that on these kind of scanners the scannable area is generally only very slightly larger than what is needed to scan a full frame, e.g. 36.5mm wide scannable area for a 36mm wide frame therefore, I would assume that each slide/negative has to be positioned in the scanner incredibly accurately in order to get the full image without cropping. Is it possible to achieve accurate positioning with any of these scanners?

Also, given that a lot of these scanners use plastic holders for the slides/negatives, do these ever affect positioning for example, do four frames on one negative strip fit perfectly through each window in the plastic holder?

With regards to keeping the slide mount visible, from the models you're speaking about, no, not possible.

To do this you will need a flatbed without a frame, like an Epson V750.

And you probably don't want to do this anyway because of the exposure issue with the slide mount white order. When the scanner determines how much sensitivity is required it will me measuring all that white as part of the actual image. This will lead to the real image being severely underexposed unless you manually set the balance for each individual slide after the pre-scan.

You are better to scan as is and add a white border through software. If there are labels on the slides, you will need to manually enter them.

Also, I recommend the Plustek 7600 series now as the better scanner not on your list. Cheers.

 

[davidf]

Thanks for your input, Aristophanes.

I suspected that this was the case, but wanted to find out before parting with money. It seems strange that they make the scannable area/sensor so small - I guess it's a question of cost.

Basically, my aim is just to not have any part of the image lost to cropping - in an ideal world, I wouldn't want to see any of the slide mount at all.

I've read lots of good things about the flatbed Epson you suggested, but given that my requirements are solely for 35mm media, I'm probably going to opt for a dedicated slide/negative model.

I haven't considered the Plustek models at all - since you recommend them, I shall give them a look.

 

[L Gebhardt]

Thanks for your input, Aristophanes.

I suspected that this was the case, but wanted to find out before parting with money. It seems strange that they make the scannable area/sensor so small - I guess it's a question of cost.

Basically, my aim is just to not have any part of the image lost to cropping - in an ideal world, I wouldn't want to see any of the slide mount at all.

I've read lots of good things about the flatbed Epson you suggested, but given that my requirements are solely for 35mm media, I'm probably going to opt for a dedicated slide/negative model.

I haven't considered the Plustek models at all - since you recommend them, I shall give them a look.

On my ancient Canon FS4000 it will scan the edges of the slide mount. I don't know about the models you mentioned.

If you don't want to loose any info, you should unmount your slides and scan them in the negative holders. The cardboard mounts cover a fair bit of image area, and combined with the rounded corners you do loose a lot of the image you took.

 

[davidf]

Thanks L Gebhardt - you make a good point about unmounting the slides, as the mounts are certainly the limiting factor here.

Having looked around further, it seems that all these kinds of models have a pretty similar size scannable area, so it's probably just a case of positioning the slides/negatives as best one can.

For an older machine, the Canon FS4000 seems to have an excellent specification - 4000 dpi, 42 bit colour, etc.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I have a question

It seems strange that they make the scannable area/sensor so small - I guess it's a question of cost.

Basically, my aim is just to not have any part of the image lost to cropping - in an ideal world, I wouldn't want to see any of the slide mount at all.

given that the light is on one side, and the sensor on the other and that the slide mount is by design intended to prevent light passing through (it was also the mask in a slide projector) how will you see the slide mount as anything other than just black?

I have both Epson flatbeds and a Nikon LS4000 and both allow me to select a significantly larger area than the 36x24 of the exposed part of the film. However the HOLDERS for film strips (be they negatives or unmounted positive film) will cover the sprocket holes because something needs to hold the film in an accurate position for clear focus. The flatbed has the sheet of glass for this, and a drum scanner has the drum ...

If you are not dealing with strips of film (meaning you are unmounting the slides) I'm sure you'll find out that holding them in position is quite annoying when scanning.

I don't mind putting strips on the glass and scanning, but watch out for what are called newton rings.

 

[davidf]

Thanks, Les Sarile, for the excellent explanation. Looks as if the FH-3 filmholder would be the accessory for me for the Nikon range.

 

[davidf]

Thanks, pellicle, for your thoughts. All I want to do is retain as much of the original image as possible when scanning. As you suggest, I need to either accept the setup with the 35mm scanners or go for a large format/flatbed machine.

 

[Les Sarile]

BTW, the 500 pixels getting clipped at the top only is part of the scene you wouldn't have known was included on the film when you looked in your camera's viewfinder unless you have one of the very few 100% viewfinders such as the Nikon F, F2, F3, F4 & F5 or Canon 1 & 1V. Simply inserting strips of film instead of using filmholders - especially film that is rolled up, is a very desirable workflow.

 

[AliG]

Since the Coolscan IV uses the same accessories as the Coolscan 5000 which I owned, I am assuming the film handling is the same. Using the SA-21, you simply insert strips of up to 6 frames of film and it takes care of perfectly aligning each frame for scanning. With the MA-20, you can insert 1 mounted slide at a time. With an FH-3 filmholder, you can insert a strip of film - up to 6 frames, and manually scan one frame at a time. The SA-21 crops about 500 pixels at the top but with the FH-3 you get the whole frame as shown below.

Link to larger version -> Coolscan crop

I'm late to the party here but am a bit obsessed with including all the negative border in my 35 mm scans. I've used a Nikon Coolscan IV for about 20 years and have realised that the SA-21 is far easier to use than the FH-3. If you care fully file down black plastic edges of the negative holder (an emery board is ideal for this), it can give the full 35 mm negative. Sometimes the alignment is off but turning the scanner on to its side or upside down can help. This image is a good example. I