35mm sans sprocket holes ?

removed account4 · Dec 21, 2015

are there any 35mm cameras that don't have sprocket holes ?
i coated IDK 5 feet of 35mm paper negatives and stuck it in my camera
only to be disappointed because, well i couldn't advance the paper
and expose it since there are no sprocket holes.
i have an idea of how to deal with putting sprocket holes on my negatives
but don't really want to bother ...
is there a camera made / was there one made
that didn't use sprocket holes to advance the film ?

all the ones i have used, seen &c have had them holes.
john

i know, i can load it in a 6x6.MF camera, and not worry about it
but i'd rather have a small 35mm camera doing the fun-stuff

MontanaJay · Dec 21, 2015

The Bantam 828 cameras used unsprocketed 35 mm stock as a roll film. Might try one of those.
I always thought it was a neat format -- made for some great super-slides that would go into a regular projector.

Ian Grant · Dec 21, 2015

The 126 Instamatic film was just a re-packaging of 828 in a daylight loading/unloading cassette. I wouldn't call 828 super slides though, 127 was.

828 and later 126 have a single sprocket hole per frame for the wind on.

Ian

Ian C · Dec 21, 2015

The 35mm Richoh XR-M (XR-X outside of the US) has no sprockets.

The bold-text under "CAMERA TEST" in the following link is useful.

https://books.google.com/books?id=r...ge&q=ricoh 35mm slr without sprockets&f=false

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/ricoh/xr-m/xr-m.pdf

Hatchetman · Dec 21, 2015

sounds like a great application for an 828 camera.

ValoPeikko · Dec 21, 2015

There are cameras that don't have advancing wheels for sprockets. Only one comes immediately into mind (Leningrad rangefinder) but there must be tons of others.

Simple check at the camera cabinet, many point and shoots don't seem to be using sprockets at all, Olympus Mju II as an example.

dwross · Dec 21, 2015

Hi John,
Use a length of commercial 35mm film just like you would 120 backing paper. http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmltutgen.py?content=24Jul2013
My holiday card was shot with a Pentax MX and I've got a couple of entries on 35mm photography in my new web diary. (Nov 19 and Nov 6). http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgennew.py?content=Journal
I would guess that paper negatives would work as well as film negatives if the paper isn't too thick. There's a world of terrific 35mm equipment for sale at amazing prices. 828 cameras are very cool, but the ones for sale lately aren't all in great shape.
d

removed account4 · Dec 21, 2015

thanks for all your suggestions,
i hadn't ever heard of an 828 camera before ..
and i am rather fond of strut cameras so this might be funner than ever
is a 828 spool the same exact thing as a 35mm spool ?

denise !
that is exactly what i was going to do ..
i have some not so thin / not so thick paper
that works perfectly for 35mm paper negatives..
i was told it was butcher paper, but whenever i go
to restaurant supply places and try to match it
i come up empty ... its perfect for emulsion
and cyanotypes !

i will make sure not to make my 35mm length too long
don't wanna stress out the clutch ..

bernard_L · Dec 21, 2015

The 35mm Richoh XR-M (XR-X outside of the US) has no sprockets.

many point and shoots don't seem to be using sprockets at all, Olympus Mju II as an example.

Sure, they do not have sprocket wheels. But they rely on sprocket holes for IR detection of film advance.

Truzi · Dec 21, 2015

I've a Sears KS-2 (rebranded Ricoh XR-7). I've run unperforated microfilm through it without issue. The film will ride on top of the sprockets/sprocket-wheel, but the pressure plate keeps it flat enough, in my opinion. Caveat Emptor: I'm just a snapshooter, so did no critical testing.
Winding turns both the take-up reel and sprocket-wheel; thus the film itself is not turning the sprockets, just riding along, so everything advances and cocks.

Since the film is riding on the sprockets, there may be some frame-spacing irregularity, but I've not had any overlap.
If you find a similar camera, you can even remove (file-down) the sprockets so the film rolls flat across the sprocket-wheel. You just have to make sure the shutter cocks and advance halts without requiring film itself to move any mechanism as it is wound.

I think the 828 had an "indexing hole" that a pin would go through when you advanced far enough, halting the film-advance at the proper distance (much like 110 and 126). You could simply learn how far to wind to make it to the next frame, or you could create these "holes" easier than 35mm sprocket holes. Here is a link to a similar 126-cartridge idea, but you can apply it to 828.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Here is another dealing with indexing pins in cameras:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Hatchetman · Dec 21, 2015

828 had slightly different spools. The Bantam or Flash-Bantam are great little cameras and pretty cheap. But you will need one roll of 828 film to re-create the backing paper with the frame numbers in the right place (for the little red window). You don't need any perfs if you have the little window and know where to stop advancing the film. Though 828 film was only 8 frames, you can fit 12-14 frames easy if you roll your own.

mexipike · Dec 21, 2015

I'm pretty sure you could also use a holga 120 with the 35mm adapter kit.

removed account4 · Dec 21, 2015

holga ! im about 3 days too late, just gifted mine
but it was notone with a B/T function so i still
would have been SOL

AgX · Dec 21, 2015

Some modern cameras only transport the film via the take-up spool and control transport optically by the perforation.
Thus these Need still perforations.

Other cameras use the sprocket wheel only for transport control; those wheels could do without teeth.

newcan1 · Dec 21, 2015

I modified a Nikkormat FTn by putting just the right amount of rubber tape on the sprocketed spindle that it advances the film via friction. I have a few thousand feet of Portra and Agfa Portrait that is unsprocketed, and it works very well. The same technique may work on any non-electronic camera.

Peltigera · Dec 21, 2015

Voigtlander Vito I (folding camera from 1939) - film needs to be in a standard cassette - film advanced by a feeler spindle, not a sprocket wheel.

Sent from my A1-840 using Tapatalk

McFortner · Dec 21, 2015

The Canon EOS 10 S/10 QD doesn't need sprocket holes. I use both for my non-perf microfilms.

AgX · Dec 21, 2015

But hasn't it got that optical control? I would expect the camera to run havoc without perforations.

McFortner · Dec 21, 2015

Not according to the FPP. They say it has no optical sensors to fog IR film. It gave no problems with my microfilm.

Andy38 · Dec 22, 2015

Hello,
French camera Lumière Eljy uses special 24 X 36 mm film on paper-backed rollfilm :

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/page_standard_eng.php?id_appareil=23
http://www.collection-appareils.fr/accessoires/html/accessoire-434-Lumière_Film pour Eljy.html

I have some packed rolls, but never used...

removed account4 · Dec 22, 2015

thanks everyone for your posts and suggestions ..
i'm poking around in the world of unsproketed film now
--- can't afford a beautiful deluxe bantam special
( sure is pretty though ) same with one of those lumiere cameras
( i have a thing for french cameras, almost bought a gaumont stereo camera at one point )

maybe one of santa's elves will hear my talking in my sleep and i'll find something in my sock ..

john

John51 · Dec 22, 2015

While surfing the auction site, I came across adapters to use 35mm film in 120 cameras. Cheapo panoramic. It's just a cassette extender. Of course you have to tape up the red window if using an oldie and you need to guess the film advance. Unloading has to be done in the dark.

fwir, some use 35mm film in 127 cameras.

Meyer Trioplan · Dec 23, 2015

jnanian,

You don't really have to have the "beautiful deluxe bantam special." Consider the Bantam Special Anastigmat 4.5 or alternatively the Flash Bantam 4.5 camera - they are essentially fraternal twins, and can easily be picked up for about $12-$30 in good working condition.

I recently got my dad's old Bantam working using cut down 120 film and after a little bit of work to repair the focusing element position, the camera works amazingly well. Here is a link...

http://quirkyguywithacamera.blogspot.com/2015/12/following-in-my-fathers-footsteps-828.html

removed account4 · Dec 23, 2015

thank you so much for the link !
( beautiful stuff by the way )
i was looking yesterday at a glash bantam or special anastigmat 4x5 ..
maybe the wise men will deliver something on the epiphany

john

MattKing · Dec 23, 2015

John:

A huge percentage of our family's early Kodachrome slides were shot on 828 by my father on his Bantam RF: http://kodak.3106.net/index.php?p=209&cam=1288

35mm sans sprocket holes ?

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