35mm Rangefinder Buying Advice

JADoss23 · Nov 4, 2019

I know asking for opinions on cameras is a loaded question but was curious about various rangefinders. Was using a Contax G1 for awhile and liked it but it had some mechanical issues and sold it because of. Have yet to replace it with a new one or something else. Have always wanted a Leica but never decided if worth spending the money on one. Would like to find a camera that will last for awhile and not be concerned about electronics crapping out and it being an expensive paperweight. I don't care about light meter. Any advice on good, reliable rangefinder options. Thanks

voceumana · Nov 4, 2019

I have 2 Bessa R2A's and they seem to be well built. The electronics only operate the meter. A Leica M4, M4-2, M4-P would probably suit you just fine.

Though it is an SLR, a Nikon FM2n is fully mechanical except the meter, and you'll find a large availability of lenses at reasonable prices--if you can work with an SLR.

Ko.Fe. · Nov 4, 2019

Buy Leica LTM a.k.a. Barnack. They are around 300$ serviced,
It will work with not-expensive FSU RF LTM lenses and FSU universal viewfinder.

Or buy made in Japan version of LTM RF camera (around 100$) and send it for service.
I have old Canon RF from early fifties. All works, except new curtains are needed. Where are services still available for it.

Less convenient in use, but still possible to find in working condition are old Nikon RF cameras, with lesser choice for lens.

Bessa T, R, R2 and any of R_M are mechanical, with only TTL light meter. They are Nikon FM10 base converted to RF.
Flimsy, but some of them are mint, like new or even NIB. Any of them will need half-case. Any Cosina made Bessa is not wear resistant.

The rest of mechanical rangefinders is hit and miss due to their age, lack of use and/or quality.

Pentode · Nov 4, 2019

If you only shoot with a normal (45-55mm) lens, there are many worthwhile fixed-lens RFs, both of Japanese and German manufacture, from the 1950s. If you don’t care about interchangeable lenses this can be a great way to go.

If you do need to change lenses ko.fe’s suggestion to look into an LTM body, either Leica Barnack, Cosina/Voigtlander or Canon, would give you a wider variety of lenses to choose from at a much lower cost than the Leica M system.

Arklatexian · Nov 4, 2019

JADoss23 said:
I know asking for opinions on cameras is a loaded question but was curious about various rangefinders. Was using a Contax G1 for awhile and liked it but it had some mechanical issues and sold it because of. Have yet to replace it with a new one or something else. Have always wanted a Leica but never decided if worth spending the money on one. Would like to find a camera that will last for awhile and not be concerned about electronics crapping out and it being an expensive paperweight. I don't care about light meter. Any advice on good, reliable rangefinder options. Thanks

Whether to buy a Leica M3 or M2 or not depends how old you are as either one is apt to last 50 years or more making them cheap by the year. Don't know about newer Ms. I only know about the older ones that I have owned for 50 years. They seem "good to go" for another 50 years. However, I am not..........Regards!

jimjm · Nov 4, 2019

I agree LTM Leicas are a good way to start in RF, if you want mechanical reliability and interchangeable lenses. Here's some good info. Canon also made some similar cameras in LTM mount, and you may be able to find those for a bit less $. I recently sold a 1953 Canon IVsb for $125 here on the forum that was in good shooting condition and had new curtains and a CLA by Youxin Ye a few years ago. Canon also made other LTM bodies that were a bit larger and slightly more user-friendly IMHO, like the Canon P and 7 models.
However, for shooting experience, the Leica M cameras are worlds better. A recently-serviced M2, M3 or M4 will go for a decade or more without any problems, if you use it regularly. The combined RF/VF is a joy to use - simple and clean. If you lean towards wider lenses, I'd recommend an M2 or M4 as these have built-in framelines for 35mm lenses. If you usually shoot 50mm or longer, an M3 may be better.
There's also older Contax mechanical rangefinders, but make sure the shutters are in good condition. Repairers are fewer for these than for Leica. Nikon RF's are another option, but probably harder to find one in good condition. I bought a Nikon S2 from KEH a few years ago, only to find the slow speeds were unreliable. KEH sent me 2 replacements, and they both had the same problem. I'm still looking for a good one.
I have a Voigtlander Bessa T as a backup to my M2, and it's been a great camera, but it is electronic-dependent. Prices on the various Bessa models seem to be going up since Cosina discontinued them a few years ago.
There's a lot to choose from, so Good Luck!

Paul Howell · Nov 4, 2019

I've had both Canon and Leica 39mm screw mount, a Leica IIIG and Canon 7S, the Leica had better build quality, solid, but the 7S was much easier to use. The bottom loading of the Leica always gave me trouble, the 7S, was easy load on the fly. The 7S built in bright line viewfinders was very handy, and while not the most accurate and not TTL, the light meter was quite functional. I used Leica, Canon and Minolta lens, I never tested the lens, but in day to day use could use could not tell the difference between them. Not sure how well the old Soviet lens matches a Leica or Nikon rangefinders but always an option. When In the Air Forced we had M2 and 3s. excellent cameras. Other options for M glass is of course the Zeiss body, was in production until what maybe 6 or 7 years ago? Dont know if Contax can be services, same with Kodak Retina S, I have a Retina III C Big, the guy I use to have service has passed away. If you use a standard lens then a Canon or Minolta fixed lens rangefinder, not pro build, still good quality with a great built in lens.

Lee Rust · Nov 4, 2019

As mentioned above, the simple fixed-lens rangefinders of the 1970's are very capable cameras. My experience is with the Canonets, but there are others. For interchangeable lenses, it's hard to beat the Leicas if you can scrape up the cash. They won't lose much value as the years go by. Cosina/Voigtlander are fine too if you want to economize.

JADoss23 · Nov 4, 2019

Thanks for all the input. Super insightful. I currently use a Nikon F3 for SLR purposes and have an Olympus XA for fixed range so the interchangeable lenses is something I'd want. I've always fancied the looks of the Bessa Rs. For people with experience with them how do they hold up compared to Leica M's? Does one model of the Bessa r standout over the others or would you be better off getting a Canon rangefinder or Leica LTM if going the budget route?

Dennis-B · Nov 4, 2019

I currently own a couple of Yashica Electro 35's (GSN, GTN). They're great for my "walk around" needs. I found a couple in excellent condition, and managed to find a perfect substitute for the original mercury cells. They're AE and aperture-preferred in operation, which suits my needs.

Ko.Fe. · Nov 4, 2019

JADoss23 said:
Thanks for all the input. Super insightful. I currently use a Nikon F3 for SLR purposes and have an Olympus XA for fixed range so the interchangeable lenses is something I'd want. I've always fancied the looks of the Bessa Rs. For people with experience with them how do they hold up compared to Leica M's? Does one model of the Bessa r standout over the others or would you be better off getting a Canon rangefinder or Leica LTM if going the budget route?

I had L, then R. Then T and now R2M and L, again.
The only reason why, both were NIB.
Again, no Cosina Bessa is close to any Leica RF, LTM or M.
They are build on economy FM10 base.
They are even worse:
Shutter delay level is not installed.
Advance needs to be slow, if fast frame space uneven.
Shutter dial is crude and more resistant one way than another.
Film plate is hold by plastic pins.
R top plate is plastic, loosing paint.
R back is soft rubber, scratches and gets sticky.
Bessas has strap lugs in wrong place, camera goes lens up.
Some Bessas have M mount too large; lens play.
Light meter is dumb. If not close to correct exposure it might fail to measure.

GRHazelton · Nov 4, 2019

Lee Rust said:
As mentioned above, the simple fixed-lens rangefinders of the 1970's are very capable cameras. My experience is with the Canonets, but there are others. For interchangeable lenses, it's hard to beat the Leicas if you can scrape up the cash. They won't lose much value as the years go by. Cosina/Voigtlander are fine too if you want to economize.

Do consider the Konica IIIa for fixed lens rangefinders.. Either the f2 or f1.8 models have truly excellent Hexanon lenses, front mounted two stroke advance levers (good for left eyed users) AND superlative viewfinders, even by today's standards. These finders, 1 to 1, and parallax corrected, also compensate for the reduction in coverage as the lens is focused closer and closer! Not even Leica has ever had that feature. Both cameras are beautifully constructed, and heavy enough to be good defensive weapons. See here https://www.dantestella.com/technical/koni3.html what Dante Stella thinks.

Pentode · Nov 4, 2019

If you’re looking to economize, a Canon P is very nice to use and very well made. Some of the FSU lenses in m39 are very good and very inexpensive. If you look for a Canon P make sure you buy from a reputable source and see that the finder is clean and unfaded and the shutter’s in good shape. These cameras are quite well built but they’re still 60 years old.

Even the best Canon finders (P, 7 and 7s) are not as nice as the Leica M series or Voigtlander/Cosinas but I still find them perfectly fine to use.

guangong · Nov 4, 2019

Arklatexian said:
Whether to buy a Leica M3 or M2 or not depends how old you are as either one is apt to last 50 years or more making them cheap by the year. Don't know about newer Ms. I only know about the older ones that I have owned for 50 years. They seem "good to go" for another 50 years. However, I am not..........Regards!

Just what I intended to say. Bought my Leica M4s new... pretty inexperienced when amortized over time. Service my cameras every 35-40 yrs. Some of my ltm Leica are 80+ yrs old and still going strong.
Problem with Nikon rf cameras is that cameras and lenses are becoming collector items and lenses and accessories are expensive.

StepheKoontz · Nov 5, 2019

A Leica IIIc is hard to beat for a reasonably cheap, reliable rangefinder camera. I actually like the two port viewing system as the rangefinder side is zoomed in for more accurate focusing, then move to the other port to frame and shoot. Nicca/Tower also made a very solid Leica clone I enjoy using as well.

John51 · Nov 5, 2019

With an XA and an F3, you've got 35mm pretty much covered imo. What could be the 3rd leg of the tripod is a mf rf. Maybe a Fuji 6x9?

narsuitus · Nov 5, 2019

JADoss23 said:
Was using a Contax G1 for awhile and liked it but it had some mechanical issues and sold it because of. Have yet to replace it with a new one or something else. Have always wanted a Leica but never decided if worth spending the money on one.

Since my college days, when I used a Leica M1 on a microscope, I wanted a Leica rangefinder but could not afford one.

Instead, I used two Contax G1 rangefinders. When I finally could afford a Leica, I purchased the M6. It was worth the money.

35mm Rangefinders by Narsuitus, on Flickr

JADoss23 · Nov 5, 2019

John51 said:
With an XA and an F3, you've got 35mm pretty much covered imo. What could be the 3rd leg of the tripod is a mf rf. Maybe a Fuji 6x9?

I had one and loved it but got rid of it because I already because I had two other medium format cameras. Already been debating swapping my RB67 for a Pentax 67 but that's a whole other conversation. ha!

johnha · Nov 5, 2019

I bought a beaten up M4 with a Voightlander 40/1.4 lens and haven't regretted it. It's the best built 35mm camera I have (the only other that comes close is a Pentax KX). If you've always wanted a Leica, anything else is likely to disappoint. I haven't used s Barnak, but doubt it would be as practical or pleasurable to use.

Jim Jones · Nov 6, 2019

I bought a new Leica iiif in 1953 and used it until it got bashed in several years later. For a while I used Canon P and 7S, and from 1971 a Leica M4. Along the way I also used a few Barnack Leicas and clones, a Kodak Retina, and several Nikon SLRs. The M4 and lenses survived hard use from the equator to nearly the north pole with perfect performance and reliability. The Canons finally failed after many years and considerable use. Even the Barnack Leicas eventually need servicing.

AndyH · Nov 6, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
A Leica IIIc is hard to beat for a reasonably cheap, reliable rangefinder camera. I actually like the two port viewing system as the rangefinder side is zoomed in for more accurate focusing, then move to the other port to frame and shoot. Nicca/Tower also made a very solid Leica clone I enjoy using as well.

I agree completely! When I first discovered how cheap the bodies were selling for, I went out and bought two, both under $200. A little cleanup and shutter testing, and I've got a reliable shooter and backup. Of course, I had to acquire a lens system, and was able to afford the original Leitz lenses in 85mm and 135mm focal lengths. The 50mm and 35mm lenses have skyrocketed, so I bought some inexpensive Russian copies to start with until I could afford Summitars and Sumicrons. The Jupiter 35 is tack sharp, and often can be found at bargain prices. Mine was under $100, and I got a seller's credit because the focusing was so stiff that I thought about returning it. That was about a two hour DIY job, and the lens is now perfect.

Although the M systems are skyrocketing in price, I don't think you can do much better for a variety of high quality choices than an L39 Leica and available lenses, both German and Russian.

Andy

GRHazelton · Nov 6, 2019

I scored a Canon P is virtually mint condition! It is a 39mm Leica "clone," although in many ways more pleasant to use than the III series. See what Dante Stella says https://www.dantestella.com/technical/canonp.html And here's Karen Nakamura of Photo Ethnography: http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?index-body.html.html~mainFrame I've also found the 50mm f1.8 and the 35mm f2. Note that collapsible lenses or other lenses which protrude deeply into the camera are likely to foul some internal light baffles. A dedicated clip-on selenium light meter is also out there, but the cell is probably bad after all these years. I did find a everready case - with a bulge for the meter! - in lovely condition
One caveat, perhaps The 50mm lenses, my 35mm lens, and the f3.5 100mm take 40 mm filters. These seem to be made of Unobtainium! I hate to use slip on Series holders for fear of scarring the lens. Of course virtually any 39mm Leica lens will work -- too rich for my blood.

mshchem · Nov 6, 2019

Find a decent Leica screw mount. Cosina lens. I have a couple beautiful Leicas. One is a M6ttl that I bought new old stock from a Japanese dealer a couple years back. It's an expensive paper weight but it's beautiful, between the body and a 6 bit chrome Summicron I laid out around 4500 bucks. Nuts, but it is beautiful. I like Fuji 6x9 rangefinders. That's what I grab. I got suckered into ordering a Fuji X Pro 3, it's due into my friend's shop end of November. With the nice 35mm f2 normal lens right at 2100, and it has a little fake film flap LCD. .

takahwan · Nov 15, 2019

JADoss23 said:
Thanks for all the input. Super insightful. I currently use a Nikon F3 for SLR purposes and have an Olympus XA for fixed range so the interchangeable lenses is something I'd want. I've always fancied the looks of the Bessa Rs. For people with experience with them how do they hold up compared to Leica M's? Does one model of the Bessa r standout over the others or would you be better off getting a Canon rangefinder or Leica LTM if going the budget route?

A few years back purchased a new Bessa R2M from Cameraquest. With my 50 mm lecia M it's light, fast, fun, so far very reliable. I think cameraquest might still have stock of R3M. Really had my eye on an MP or M7 but just couldn't pull the plug.

Mainecoonmaniac · Nov 15, 2019

JADoss23 said:
I know asking for opinions on cameras is a loaded question but was curious about various rangefinders. Was using a Contax G1 for awhile and liked it but it had some mechanical issues and sold it because of. Have yet to replace it with a new one or something else. Have always wanted a Leica but never decided if worth spending the money on one. Would like to find a camera that will last for awhile and not be concerned about electronics crapping out and it being an expensive paperweight. I don't care about light meter. Any advice on good, reliable rangefinder options. Thanks

You can get a purely mechanical range finder. I have a Canon P with no meter and takes M39 Leica lenses. Since I can't afford Leica lenses, I use old Russian Jupiter M39 lenses.

35mm Rangefinder Buying Advice

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