Hmmm ... A worldwide pandemic with its terrible supply, distribution and pricing issues with all kinds of things, now a serious war going on with energy supply implications ..... But what the heck ... Ain't it just a lot easier just to blame it all on Kodak? Yeah, the Mgt there made a lot of really big mistakes in the past. But crying over spilled milk won't help a bit now. Gotta be glad they're still trying, and making darn good film at the same time.
Isn't the question to which we have to address and by which we can judge Kodak is doing as follows: What has Kodak done or not done that is within its control irrespective of worldwide pandemic, wars etc which affects all its fellow film makers
If there are reasonable grounds for not blaming Kodak or any of the other film makers then fine but in many case we do not have the evidence to exonerate Kodak which is what the supporters want to do on almost a blanket basis
We can all "rationalise" and forgive Kodak for various problems but this only is justified if there is clear evidence that the facts demonstrate that the problem is clearly outside of its control
In many cases all we know is not in fact what we know but what each of us "feels". Kodak was a U.S. giant but is not that any longer. This may be difficult to come to terms with but we need to look at Kodak's behaviour and examine it to see if it stands up to scrutiny in the existing world. Otherwise we are in danger of sounding like Archie Bunker when he sings "Those were the days "
Reminiscing is not an ideal way to analyse the world as it exists now if we want to decide how Kodak or any other film company reacts to what is a vastly different world
pentaxuser
You can always change brands.
It isn't particularly easy to do that if you use colour negative film.
You can always change brands.
As far as I can see, Bulk rolling is a Routine business for Kodak. Just look at all the bulk films they offer.
So.... when someone says that bulk rolling is not kodak’s primary business and sounds super apologetic about it, I feel it’s ok to note that Kodak could easily offer bulk portra but they just don’t want to, as opposed to ”not able to”.
Basically it’s just kodak being themselves.
So that's an answer to the theme of what I was trying to say about judging Kodak's actions or those of any other film maker's? Clearly I was unsuccessful in what I attempted to do
pentaxuser
Hmmm ... A worldwide pandemic with its terrible supply, distribution and pricing issues with all kinds of things, now a serious war going on with energy supply implications ..... But what the heck ... Ain't it just a lot easier just to blame it all on Kodak? Yeah, the Mgt there made a lot of really big mistakes in the past. But crying over spilled milk won't help a bit now. Gotta be glad they're still trying, and making darn good film at the same time.
I feel it’s ok to note that Kodak could easily offer bulk portra but they just don’t want to
With good reason, probably.
The market for single rolls and pro-packs serves most amateurs and any remaining pros that still shoot film. Bulk rolls would only serve a small part of the amateur market. Moreover, it's a part of amateur market with an even lower willingness to pay than the amateur market in general. So small and unattractive segment, overall.
You're stuck on the issue whether they could technically manage bulk rolls. Obviously they could. It's just that the market rationale is missing.
Whether you find that legitimate or not is another issue. If you feel you have compelling arguments, get in touch with Alaris to put forth your business case. That'll immediately divert your energies to something more constructive than asininely beating the same dead horse ad nauseam here.
My freezer is still full, so I am not having problems with 35mm film availability.
The truth is maybe that the photrio core members are 70+? What say you about this?
I’m not convinced that you and a few folks who participated in this thread are in touch with the market out there.
Does anyone know the answers to these questions?
The answer a couple of years ago - pre-covid - was that given all their equipment and structure and staffing and other realities, it cost Eastman Kodak too much to do it.
Remember, that in what the current realities are, that the cost of shutting down the regular confectioning line in order to produce the specialty bulk films is part of the cost.
That may indeed also be a part of why the small volumes of black and white film sold by Kodak are as expensive as they are - their color film sales are massively larger.
They sold the exclusive marketing rights for a bunch of their products to Kodak Alaris.
The rest is up to the two parties. Kodak Alaris wants something made for sale, and Eastman Kodak gives them a price. Then they negotiate.
The answer a couple of years ago - pre-covid - was that given all their equipment and structure and staffing and other realities, it cost Eastman Kodak too much to do it.
Remember, that in what the current realities are, that the cost of shutting down the regular confectioning line in order to produce the specialty bulk films is part of the cost.
That may indeed also be a part of why the small volumes of black and white film sold by Kodak are as expensive as they are - their color film sales are massively larger.
Totally amateur reasoning from kodak, if what I am reading is true. A true lack of management and no knowledge of the market. Seems that Kodak are still in their old ways.
The problem here is quite simple, and it is a logistics problem, not a manufacturing problem.
Nobody is asking kodak to shut down their regular confectioning in order “produce a few bulk rolls”. This indeed would be very costly and stupid.
No. What kodak does not understand (or has not even considered) is that they should streamline their production to include the manufacturing of bulk rolls.
There is absolutely no way in the world that a bulk roll ends up being more expensive (or equally, or only 10% cheaper) than its equivalent in single rolls. The only reason for this is because of bad management. Which actuallly begs the question: is there even a manager?
If streamlined correctly, by a good managing team, kodak films could end up costing less, produced in higher numbers, and bulk rolls would be available at a very reasonable cost.
By what I understand, a lot of money is lost at kodak thanks to no management at all.
Totally amateur reasoning from kodak, if what I am reading is true. A true lack of management and no knowledge of the market. Seems that Kodak are still in their old ways.
The problem here is quite simple, and it is a logistics problem, not a manufacturing problem.
Nobody is asking kodak to shut down their regular confectioning in order “produce a few bulk rolls”. This indeed would be very costly and stupid.
No. What kodak does not understand (or has not even considered) is that they should streamline their production to efficiently include the manufacturing of bulk rolls. No disruption, but an efficient streamline.
There is absolutely no way in the world that a bulk roll ends up being more expensive (or equally, or only 10% cheaper) than its equivalent in single rolls. The only reason for this is because of bad management. Which actuallly begs the question: is there even a manager?
If streamlined correctly, by a good managing team, kodak films could end up costing less, produced in higher numbers, and bulk rolls would be available at a very reasonable cost.
By what I understand, a lot of money is lost at kodak thanks to no management at all.
The only reason Kodak is manufacturing film for Alaris may be because the bankruptcy court told them they had too. Maybe they have no interest in doing any of it and would like nothing more than dropping the whole film line? See my post #40 and 42.
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