35mm bulk film

Tom Cross · Jun 22, 2016

I bought a 30m roll of Delta 100 this week. When I opened the box there was a black light-proof bag inside which wasn't sealed shut (the outer packaging/box was sealed). Inside this I was expecting a tin - no, it was just the film! Will just the top couple of layers have been exposed or shall I bin it ?

David Lyga · Jun 22, 2016

Don't throw away this precious entity. In complete darkness unravel about one foot and, in the dark, load that into your camera. Take pictures and develop (in a tray if easier: Dektol is fastest for this test), just to see what is what. If this end has escaped destruction, you are probably fine. If not, take off another foot and do the same.

You did not state whether you SAW film, just that the bag was not sealed. Was the bag folded over? You are probably safer than you think. The trick is to find where on the roll is the place that is past the possible lighting damage.

Ilford does not (or, for you Brits, 'do not') provide cans for their bulk loads. - David Lyga

Tom Cross · Jun 22, 2016

Sorry I didn't explain very well. The black bag wasn't sealed at all, just folded over. I assumed that there would be a tin inside and pulled out the whole roll! I wasn't expecting the bare negative to be so accessible, and quickly put it back in the bag.

David Lyga · Jun 22, 2016

That black bag is light tight, unless there is a tear. But since you pulled out the whole roll, at best, the sides of the film are damaged. That MIGHT prevent the inner film, the film that really COUNTS, being OK but maybe after several feet. You have a lot of testing to do. - David Lyga

Tom Cross · Jun 22, 2016

[QUOTE="The MOST important thing right now for you to do is to decide upon Brexit. - David Lyga[/QUOTE]

I don't think this country is, in general, incapable of running itself!

I did take the whole roll out, then put it back in. I'll do a few test rolls and see.

David Lyga · Jun 22, 2016

Usually in situations like this, only the first few feet are damaged. Be patient as this film is extremely costly, more costly than a Brexit. - David Lyga

bdial · Jun 22, 2016

If you exposed the roll to light, no matter how briefly, the two or three layers or so will be fogged. Assuming it's not on a spool with opaque sides, the edges will be fogged, but it probably won't affect the image area.

As David suggests, in the dark, discard the first foot or two/.5 meters, spool a bit of the rest into a cassette and shoot it as a test roll.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 22, 2016

Tom Cross said:
I bought a 30m roll of Delta 100 this week. When I opened the box there was a black light-proof bag inside which wasn't sealed shut (the outer packaging/box was sealed). Inside this I was expecting a tin - no, it was just the film! Will just the top couple of layers have been exposed or shall I bin it ?

Now you know, I'm sure you won't do the same mistake again.
It seems it is the first time you buy a bulk roll made by Harman.
They are all the same.
For your reference, if the box has a seal of any kind, only open it in the dark.
In your defence, on my Kentmere 400 boxes, it doesn't say to open only in a darkroom.
Foma rolls come in a sealed can clearly labelled to "open in the dark" only.
Inside they are the same as Harman, dark bag just wrapped around the film.

BTW, the film core for Harman bulk films is 1", while Foma uses 2" cine cores.
You should keep that core if you want later to use Foma films.
Most bulk loaders like the Watson 100 or the Computrol are made for 1" core.

HiHoSilver · Jun 22, 2016

'Just a bravo to responders. 'Very good help & this makes the place very strong medicine.

Tom Cross · Jun 22, 2016

Well I just did a test roll after discarding the first few feet and it's only exposed at the edges a tiny amount. Should be fine!!

Thanks all for your advice.
Tom

Gerald C Koch · Jun 22, 2016

I haven't seen 100 foot rolls in cans for eons. The box will usually say something like "Open only in total darkness."

Don't forget that the last foot or so was also exposed to light. So the last bit spooled to cassette will also be fogged.

Cinema film is always loaded and unloaded into the camera in the light. It is expected that the first couple of layers cannot be used.

MattKing · Jun 22, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
I haven't seen 100 foot rolls in cans for eons. The box will usually say something like "Open only in total darkness."

Kodak bulk rolls still come in cans - at a premium!

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 22, 2016

MattKing said:
Kodak bulk rolls still come in cans - at a premium!

It seems so.
And all Foma bulk rolls come in cans.

Xmas · Jun 22, 2016

The boxes have only open in darkroom in eight languages, or mine do...

Europan · Jun 22, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
Cinema film is always loaded and unloaded into the camera in the light. It is expected that the first couple of layers cannot be used.

You cannot say so in general. Movie film on daylight spools can be loaded in subdued light, at least not under full sunshine or in the beam of a brute. Longer rolls such as the OP has encountered are placed in magazines in the dark (darkroom/change bag/change tent). Depending on the mag system, one has to lace the film up the camera movement or simply attach the mag to the cam.

Agree, the label should say: Open only in the dark or something like that.

Ashfaque · Jun 22, 2016

Tom Cross said:
Sorry I didn't explain very well. The black bag wasn't sealed at all, just folded over. I assumed that there would be a tin inside and pulled out the whole roll! I wasn't expecting the bare negative to be so accessible, and quickly put it back in the bag.

I had the same mistake and thought exactly like you. In my case, it was an HP5+ 50' bulk roll. After about 10-15 feet, it was alright. First I was very angry with myself. But then APUG members lightened up my mood by talking about various initiation steps!

pentaxuser · Jun 22, 2016

I am confused. What warning does Ilford give on the box that the black bag must only be opened in total darkness. I take it that nowhere does Ilford say that its bulk film does not come in a can with a corresponding warning that
cannot be taken into the light in quite the same way as a can.

It may be that a black bag is now only folded over with no tape on the bag's opening. It has been a while since I bought Ilford bulk film but I thought that there was tape on the blackbag.

Last time I bought Ilford paper it was in a black bag and it was sealed with tape. I wonder why the tape on a film black bag has been omitted?

Can anyone else who bought Ilford bulk film in the last few weeks give a description of the packaging and warnings etc?

pentaxuser

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 22, 2016

As you are confused, better is to show you a box of Ilford HP5+ and a can of Fomapan 400.
As I said above, the Kentmere 400 I had didn't came with the warning on the side as Ilford comes.

Here the Ilford box on its side:

And here is the inside of the box:

For comparison the Fomapan can:

Here are the cores used: 1" on the Ilford and 2" core on the Fomapan.
You can see they fit neatly together.

I hope that it is clear now.

newtorf · Jun 22, 2016

I made the same mistake for my first 100ft HP5! The first roll or two would be exposed. But the rest should be perfectly fine.

Tom Cross said:
I bought a 30m roll of Delta 100 this week. When I opened the box there was a black light-proof bag inside which wasn't sealed shut (the outer packaging/box was sealed). Inside this I was expecting a tin - no, it was just the film! Will just the top couple of layers have been exposed or shall I bin it ?

Arklatexian · Jun 22, 2016

Tom Cross said:
I bought a 30m roll of Delta 100 this week. When I opened the box there was a black light-proof bag inside which wasn't sealed shut (the outer packaging/box was sealed). Inside this I was expecting a tin - no, it was just the film! Will just the top couple of layers have been exposed or shall I bin it ?

Tom Cross: thank you for opening this forum subject. I've not bought any 35mm in bulk lately and now if I do, it will most probably be an Ilford product and I will now know to open box and all in complete darkness. Thank you again........Regards!

MattKing · Jun 23, 2016

In the interests of being helpful, I sent a link about this thread to Harman Tech Service using the APUG "Conversation" tool.

Now I'm going to ask a moderator to add "Handle in Complete Darkness" to the thread title.

pentaxuser · Jun 23, 2016

Thanks Ricardo. I cannot read what is on the side of the Ilford HP5+ box but I take it that it does warn you to only open in complete darkness. It also appears that there is no tape sealing the black bag. Is this correct?

Neither is there any such warning of only open in total darkness on the Kentmere bulk film box , which is a pity.

Maybe a folded-over blackbag has been tested by Ilford and it is satisfied that the folding makes it light-tight.

pentaxuser

Tom Cross · Jun 23, 2016

Xmas said:
The boxes have only open in darkroom in eight languages, or mine do...

What brand is that and when was the last time you bought any?

Ashfaque · Jun 23, 2016

Whilst we are at it, I might as well mention this: Rollei RPX 100 bulk roll (100ft) that I bought directly from Maco and opened recently, did not have any tape on the black plastic bag. But their plastic bag is lot longer than Ilford's. Not sure if it was a one off thing or they've just started doing it. The bulk rolls (RPX 25, RPX 400, and Retro 80S) that I have from Maco last year or before had tapes.

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 23, 2016

pentaxuser said:
Thanks Ricardo. I cannot read what is on the side of the Ilford HP5+ box but I take it that it does warn you to only open in complete darkness. It also appears that there is no tape sealing the black bag. Is this correct?

Neither is there any such warning of only open in total darkness on the Kentmere bulk film box , which is a pity.

Maybe a folded-over blackbag has been tested by Ilford and it is satisfied that the folding makes it light-tight.

pentaxuser

Yes, it says "Open in total darkness".
No tape sealing the bag, but there is tape at the end of the roll.

/rant
I think that anyone buying a bulk roll should know that it can only be opened in the dark be it in a cardboard box or a metal can.
Most 35mm manuals from the past dealt with this.
Besides in this day and age there's always Google or for the kids some You Tube video:
You ought to know if you see a dark bag, you can only open it in the dark.
The black bag is there for a reason.
/end rant

35mm bulk film

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David Lyga

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Europan

Ashfaque

pentaxuser

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newtorf

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35mm bulk film

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