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35mm bulk film questions

heinzkeinz

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
10
Location
Toronto
Format
35mm
Hello all,

I've recently acquired a used Watson film loader for free and I am having a few problems that I was hoping you may be able to answer. I've never used a daylight film loader before, so I wonder if mine is old and broken or if all suffer from similar deficiencies.

It doesn't seem to reliably measure the quantity of film rolled onto the spool. It faithfully clicks out exposures but after using and developing the first batch, the film strips vary in length +/- about 4 inches. All were supposedly 30 exposures according to the machine.

I see that things are loose and I've tried to tighten up visible screws. Should I get a new one or is this a problem typical of these contraptions?

This imprecision wouldn't be a big deal, really, except for one thing that leads me to my second question.

I don't have any issues feeling when the film is up with my older manual cameras--it simply stops advancing and I rewind. On my fancy new auto-everything Canon SLR, however, the motor rips the film off the spool. If I knew reliably how many exposures were on a roll, I could simply rewind before reaching the last shot, but if you've read this far, you know that I've not been able to do that.

I've been attaching the film to the spool with a piece of masking tape. On the second batch I loaded, I have increased the amount of tape a bit to about a 2-inch piece. Is there a more reliable method of attaching the film to the spool? The spools I have don't have any notches or anything that might hold the film.

So... I guess I have two questions for the learned APUG members:

1. Should I get a new film loader? They're not exactly super-expensive. Or, should I just cut my losses and load the film in the darkroom?

2. Any suggestions on attaching the film ends to the spool so that my Canon SLR doesn't rip the film off as it reaches the end?

Suggestions greatly appreciated!
 
I cut a length of masking tape that will go on to the film then I put the film and tape on the spool & I have enough tape to go around the spool and on to the other side of the film.
 
I get it... the film is taped on both sides that way. I'll give it a shot, thanks.
 
wclark5179 said:
I cut a length of masking tape that will go on to the film then I put the film and tape on the spool & I have enough tape to go around the spool and on to the other side of the film.
Click to expand...

+1 on this suggestion. The tape can't 'peel' from the spindle this way. The stress is equal on both sides of the film.
 
As for the number of exposures loaded, does your loader give an audible "click" each time the counter increments by one. If so, those clicks should be reliable - try just counting the clicks.

Sometimes I'm a little inconsistent about how much leader I allow for, but that shouldn't make that much of a difference.

Matt
 
Yeah, it does click out the exposures and the counter turns according to the number of clicks, but it doesn't seem to be accurate, given the uneven lengths of film drying in my cabinet! I take it that it SHOULD be accurate, so maybe I'll go looking for another machine. I would love to be able to make 35 exposure rolls consistently to minimise the amount of film lost in leaders.
 
wclark5179 said:
I cut a length of masking tape that will go on to the film then I put the film and tape on the spool & I have enough tape to go around the spool and on to the other side of the film.
Click to expand...

+1

That is what I always did.

Steve
 
The taping technique described above is good. It should solve that problem, but use a good quality tape with a fairly aggressive adhesive. Electrical tape works well, as does high quality masking tape. As for your exposure counter problems, I have had the same experience with the Watson loaders, particularly the more recent ones. Usually you get more exposures than you asked for, but occasionally less. I haven't found a cure; I just live with it.
 
Dear heinzkeinz,

I bulk load inside a changing bag (I count 40 clicks per roll). It's not hard and I can use the roll until it stops without watching the counter. You should be able to fill all the reels on a 100 foot roll while watching the average sitcom (depending, of course, on how good the show is). Remember to count the clicks so that when you load the last roll you can write down an estimate of how many shots you have.

Neal Wydra
 
If you load the occasional cartridge, it pays to keep track of what you have spooled (what's left on the 100' really) and write it on a piece of masking tape on the side of the bulk loader. As you load future cartridges, update the "remaining" film to keep track, otherwise you may come up short down the road and it always happens at the wrong time and under the wrong circumstances. Gives you a reorder lead time also.
 
Just a note to help. Try to use tape that doesn't leave a residue when pulling it off in the dark during the loading of the film into the tank. I use plain old masking tape made by 3M, however you could try the "blue" color masking tape that painters use as this for sure will not leave a residue. Other kinds of tape are available but since I'm a "cheapie" I go for the plain masking tape.

My friend Monte Zucker named me cheapie. I think it fit him as well!

Happy Holidays!
 
That 3M blue masking tape is not strong enough. The green tape is MUCH better at this. I've tried both. The blue tape fails once in a while. The green tape never fails.
 
I use the blue 3m masking tape, and wrap it around the spool and back on the film, so it's probably an inch on the film...maybe it sticks out of the light trap when fully extended, who knows. I've never had trouble with motor drives ripping it off.

I bulk load, but I never use a bulk loader. A 36 exposure roll is about 60 turns of the spool.
 
Thanks to all for the suggestions. Nothing makes me angrier than having to take my camera to the darkroom to unload the film. I haven't seen a problem with residue from the masking tape, but I haven't let a roll sit for a long time, either. In any case, there wouldn't be a problem cutting off the inch or so where the masking tape lies as that has already been exposed to the light during the loading process.
 
I always use normal 'sticky' tape attached to both sides around the spool as described above. Never had any problems with the motordrive pulling them off. I also liked 30exp rolls as they'd fit on a 10x8 proof sheet easily (5 strips of 6). If I did have a 31st frame, I could sneak that on as well. My bulk loaders (LPL's) count the frames (they click and have a numbered dial which is what I go by) accurate.
 
I don't like the watson loaders because they are wasteful. the last 3 exposures get fogged to light because there is a longer distance between where the film sits and where the film comes out of the gate. (I *think* it's watson loaders that do this).

So you basically have to remember to rewind the film a few exposures before getting to the end of the roll. Very annoying and I've forgotten to do this and lost good shots.
 
Length varies a little with my older Watson loaders too, and I also just live with it. As for the few frames of waste with the Watson Loaders - I picked up a couple of the really old bakelite loaders and found they are a bit less wasteful for the "precious" types of film, but you have to keep track of how many times you turn the handle since there is no counter or click.
 
I have been bulk loading for over 20 years. A few years ago I saw a roll of tape for sale next to the bulk loaders out at Burlington Camera , one of my favoured bricks and mortar camera shops. I decided to finally buy 'real' film tape. A well spent $20. I have a lifetime supply now of a 1" wide roll of a product called 'Blue Max' film splicing tape. It, predictably, has a blue plastic backing. It does not feel terribly sticky, but it sticks to film, base or empusion side very well, yet is not hard to peel off. It leaves no reside on the film to gunk up reels, etc. I suppose I could even, carfully, re use it, but have not tried that route yet.
 
Good Afternoon,

I have found that the tape Kodak wraps around bulk film cans works extremely well for attaching film to spools.

Konical
 
The upright models such as the AP Bobinquick, the Jessops( based on or maybe even a rebadged Bobinquick) and the Telesar seem to avoid the problem of the waste that the Watson and others of that shape suffer from. From what I have seen the Bobinquick and Jessops seem to have good counter dials as well. The telesar is accurate but the counters aren't as easy to read

pentaxuser
 
don't waste film

the only way to not waste film is to measure, cut, load in the dark without a film waster-scratcher "loader"

some manual load cameras allow for almost no leader
personal experience with fm10 load in dark, with only small corner cut off to stick on takeup spool, wind slightly and close

Dead Link Removed
this tape works good, goes on sale for 50c each
 

I wonder about this, the motor shouldn't really be strong enough to pull the film off the spool, for a simple reason, if the camera jams then the film sprockets could be torn out too. The camera's end of roll sensor, if there is one, may be defective or not set properly. If the camera is still under warranty, then ask the folks at Canon about this.

Another solution is to make sure you have more film on the spool then you tell the camera. There is about 2mm between frames, so 1 frame is 38mm, including the spacing, 6 extra frames should be about right, roughly 9" of film.

As for tape, check a motion picture film supplier, your looking for the tape they use to splice rolls of motion picture film together, it's going to be very strong, stick well to film and come off without leaving a sticky residue or damaging the film. You wrap this around the spool and attach to the film on both sides.
 
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