35mm as normal lens?

Theo Sulphate

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You give a new definition I never ever read of before.
...

I'd never read that definition either. I have read either:

  • a focal length equal to the diagonal of the image (e.g. 43mm for 24x36mm)
or
  • a focal length such that the view of objects through the viewfinder matches in size what the (other) open eye sees

... I don't understand where the 55's & 58's came from as these are way too long for me. ...

Pentax had 55mm (55/1.4) and Minolta had 58mm (58/1.2) in the 1960's. My understanding, though I could well be wrong, is that they needed these longer focal lengths (and consequently larger objective elements) in order to get lenses faster than f/2 with their mount. Nikon originally went to 55mm to get their first f/1.2 lens.

I know we have at least one lens designer in these forums. Perhaps we will get a definitive answer.
 

ic-racer

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I have drawers of 50mm lenses because almost every camera I have came with one. Almost all my 35mm cameras now have 35mm or 28mm lenses on them.
 

flavio81

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50mm already compresses perspective slightly. True "normal" perspective ought to be achieved at 43-45mm IMO.

btw... Your 35mm is one of a handful of outstanding Nikkors
 
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sissysphoto

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I had even investigated the various japanese fixed lens rangefinders from the 60's just for convenient everyday carrying. I've looked over the yashicas, minoltas, petris, and canons. I've seen some I could like pretty well, but the killer was the always on CDs meters requiring a lens cap to save battery. I hate lens caps. To me they are for when you put the camera away. And I already know how often I would end up taking pictures forgetting to remove it.
 

Sirius Glass

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35mm is not my choice because it is too close to 50mm. I use 28mm and 50mm for cities, but if you are happy using 35mm as your normal lens, that is all that counts.
 

RalphLambrecht

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35 and 50mm are the two lenses I carry with me for 35 because, I can never make up my mind which one I prefer but, if I had to pick just one, it would be the 50mm. I think it's more flexible than the 35,meaning it fits in more situations.
 

flavio81

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A lens cap protects as good as a filter, and doesn't rob image quality.

Yashicas, in general, are OFF until you push the trigger (Electro) or a button (Lynx).
 

flavio81

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35mm is not my choice because it is too close to 50mm.

I readily perceive 35mm as much, much wider than 50mm. Hell, even the difference between 45mm and 58mm (in 35mm format) is marked, as is, for example, the difference between 80 and 105mm on 6x6.
 

RalphLambrecht

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50mm already compresses perspective slightly. True "normal" perspective ought to be achieved at 43-45mm IMO.

btw... Your 35mm is one of a handful of outstanding Nikkors
there you go;I'm with you.That's why the 43-86mm Nikon zoom had the ideal range but, unfortunately, a very poor optical performance; too bade
 

albada

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That's another advantage of the Olympus Trip 35. Not only does it have a useful 40mm lens, but that lens is sharp and the meter is powered by a selenium cell, so it needs no battery.
Mark Overton
 
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sissysphoto

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Yeah a selenium cell would be great. And in 2018 about as good as the Rochelle Salt cartridge in an old phonograph.
 

wiltw

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Formats like 135 suffer in part from 'normal' ranging from about 45mm to 58mm at various points in time and/or even differing when the max aperture of the 'normal' was optionally different!

Our problem also is that using the frame diagonal has different results for different format aspect ratios. Instead, using the small dimension of the frame as a characteristic of commonality across different aspect ratio formats, and also using 8x10" photo as a common print size regardless of film frame size:
All of these would have the same vertical (small dimension of frame) Angle of View (42.5 degrees) when viewing an 8x10 printed from shots all taken the same camera position regarldess of format size!
  • 5x4: 93mm frame height (as measured on film magazine), normal = 150mm = 1.6x frame height
  • 6x7: 56mm frame height, normal = 90mm = 1.6x frame height
  • 6x6: 56mm frame height, normal = 90mm = 1.6x frame height
  • 645: 43mm frame height, normal = 70mm = 1.6x frame height
  • 135: 24mm frame height, normal = 38mm = 1.6x frame height
 
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My "normal" go-to f/l when and where I use the 35mm format is 24mm. The other is 40mm, and vanishingly rare in finding use.
 

guangong

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Very well stated!
 

flavio81

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there you go;I'm with you.That's why the 43-86mm Nikon zoom had the ideal range but, unfortunately, a very poor optical performance; too bade

I bought the revised (different optical design) version, the 43-86 AI, just one month ago. I've yet to test it, but it appears promising, except for some distortion.
 

flavio81

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Yeah a selenium cell would be great. And in 2018 about as good as the Rochelle Salt cartridge in an old phonograph.

This is not true. Many old cameras with selenium cells still can be found working fine; this is down to if there was high humidity around, and/or if the cell was kept in the dark.
 

Peter Schrager

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how stupid of me...I thought 24mm was normal....love that focal length!!
 

jim10219

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Yeah, it's all semantics. These words mean one thing t lens designers and something else to photographers. The proper terminology is generally disconnected from the technical specifications in roll film cameras. For instance, the term telephoto generally means any lens with a focal length longer than around 85mm. And the term retrofocal is almost nonexistent. Yet with large format cameras, these terms take on more precise meanings.

In any case, my point was to simply say that just because a lens is called a "normal" lens doesn't mean that it's the preferred lens or that other focal lengths would be abnormal. Therefore, feel free to buck conventional wisdom and go with whatever suits you best.
 
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sissysphoto

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Well I guess the whole thread is moot. I finished restoring the ELW and winder about a week ago. I did a very good job of f I do say so. But I've been too busy this week to get out and use it. So I've sat here in my armchair playing with it and tripping the shutter 4 or 5 times a night, then putting it down. I was going to go use it this weekend. But I've discovered the brand new 357 batteries I put in it now read 1.3 volts. So that means I've tripped it off maybe as much as a 36 exp. roll. And already my new batteries read 1.3V?. This thing is a battery eater. I ve got better things to fritter my money away on than buying 6V 544 batteries at 10 bucks a pop on the internet.
Edit: I'd been using 4 357's in the place of a 544.
 
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Theo Sulphate

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sissysphoto

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They are 357 silvers. I know better than to fool with alkalines. Besides I don't think there's any such thing as a 357 alkaline. No, there's no parasitic voltage drain or any other such problem. The EL models are known battery eaters and I ha heard that before I bought it. I bought it and the winder because they were cheap and needed service. And because I admired them in in 1975 0r 76 when the ELW came out. I had never touched one.I got my fun out of it now. The camera and winder are now in top form, due to my talented hands.. So now I've worked on it, gotten it extra nice again, and played with it a while. But I'm not going to feed it 6 volt batteries. So far I have yet to find a 35mm SLR one bit better than a Nikkormat FTN or FT2, which I already have. But it would be nice to have something like an old Yashica rangefinder as a beater and knock around in the truck.
 
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jimjm

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I've had the same 6v battery in my ELW for several years now, probably only the 2nd one in over 10 years, so it doesn't seem to be any more battery-dependent than other AE Nikon bodies. And I'm probably putting about 10 rolls/year thru it (too many other Nikon bodies to use). I didn't know it was possible to use four 1.5v batteries instead.

In any case, it's a great camera. The weight, fit and smooth finish just scream "quality". Hope you get the battery issue resolved and have fun shooting it.

Cheers!
 

RalphLambrecht

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interesting approach;where did you get this?
 

wiltw

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interesting approach;where did you get this?

Ralph,
When I got interested in large format photography 25 years ago, I got a book by Sinar. They first presented the approach of using the short dimension of the frame height as 'wide angle' FL. That FLdetermination gives all formats the same Angle of View in the short dimension, when all cameras are at the same camera position.

I adapted their use of the frame small dimension to make other FL to be multiples of the frame height (rather than using frame length or frame diagonal) Using that approach brings all FL choices to be multiples of the frame height regardless of aspect ratio of the format! That FL determination also gives all formats the same Angle of View in the short dimension for all the same multiplier, when all cameras are at the same camera position.

So with 135 having 24mm frame, using a classic 100mm portrait lens is a multiple of 4.167x frame height. So I can get the same portraiture Angle of View (in the short dimension) if I use 180mm on 645, or 233mm on 6x7 or 387mm on 4x5 sheetfilm, and make an 8x10" print size from all four formats.
 
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