3.25 x 4.25 Pacemaker Speed Graphic lens around 217 to 304mm?

Kino · Mar 5, 2023

I have always been curious as to what lens might have been with my 3.25 x 4.25 Speed Graphic kit. It has a 135 Graflex Optar 4.7 with the matching #3 viewfinder mask, but a #8 mask is floating around in the case. The focus rails also have two sets of folding infinity stops, with the 135 seemingly using the back-most set and the right-most focus scale (as you face the camera).

Since Graflex.org says the #8 mask goes to a lens in the range of 217 to 304mm, what would be the best guess for my "missing" lens?

There is a lens board "cubby" in the fitted case with room for a mounted lens, but it would only allow about an inch of space from the from of the lens board to the case edge, so its obviously not a physically long lens.

Are there any "typical" lenses of that era I can look for to complete my kit?

(and yes, I should have dusted the lens...)

AnselMortensen · Mar 5, 2023

10" (254 mm) Wollensak Raptar/Graflex Optar?

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
10" (254 mm) Wollensak Raptar/Graflex Optar?

I will research this lens. Thank you!

BrianShaw · Mar 6, 2023

Why not measure the distance from the focus plane to the forward infinity stop to determine the "missing" lens FL at infinity? or measure the distance between teh two infinity stops and add that amount (in mm) to 135?

ic-racer · Mar 6, 2023

Good idea, don't mess with that infinity stop; only the correct lens will fit the glass slipper...

ntenny · Mar 6, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
10" (254 mm) Wollensak Raptar/Graflex Optar?

That was my thought too, but it sure won’t fit in the 1” space mentioned by the OP. A tiny little tele in that range seems like an odd bird—my guess would be that it’s a red herring and the space in the case was not originally used for the lens that goes with the #8 mask.

I haven’t shot much with the 10” Tele-Optar, but it seems like a decent lens based on a test shot or two.

-NT

jwd722 · Mar 6, 2023

According to the Graflex owners manual for that camera, the #8 mask for 2 1/4x3 1/4 size film is used for lenses from 7 9/16 to 7 3/4 inches or 192mm to 196mm.

Graflex.org is talking about the 4x5 film size most likely.

I just recently bought and am waiting for a 2x3 Crown so I have been doing research which is where I came across this info.

Owners manual available from butkus.org.

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

jwd722 said:
According to the Graflex owners manual for that camera, the #8 mask for 2 1/4x3 1/4 size film is used for lenses from 7 9/16 to 7 3/4 inches or 192mm to 196mm.

Graflex.org is talking about the 4x5 film size most likely.

I just recently bought and am waiting for a 2x3 Crown so I have been doing research which is where I came across this info.

Owners manual available from butkus.org.

I never thought to cross-check graflex.org, but I do have the 3.25 x 4.25 Speed Graphic, not the 2.25 x 3.25 version.

Here's their table in a screen capture;

jwd722 · Mar 6, 2023

WOW, my bad!

I have been so fixated with 2x3 Graflexes lately that even though I read 3.25x4.25 my brain saw 2.25x3.25!

I can say that if there are any Ektar lenses in the 217 to 304 range they may be worth looking at. I have the 135 wide field Ektar and the 203 Ektar for my 4x5 B&J and both are very good.

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

jwd722 said:
WOW, my bad!

I have been so fixated with 2x3 Graflexes lately that even though I read 3.25x4.25 my brain saw 2.25x3.25!

I can say that if there are any Ektar lenses in the 217 to 304 range they may be worth looking at. I have the 135 wide field Ektar and the 203 Ektar for my 4x5 B&J and both are very good.

No problem. Information overload gets us all!

Unfortunately the Wide Field Ektars in that range are super $$$$!

Maybe I can find a reasonably priced barrel lens without a shutter in that focal length range and use the focal plane shutter.

jwd722 · Mar 6, 2023

I just looked up the WF Ektars and can't believe the prices!!

Well, once again, believe nothing I say!

BrianShaw · Mar 6, 2023

Kino said:
Here's their table in a screen capture;

I'd be wary of that table as there seems to be errors in it, especially regarding masks 2 and 9 for 2x3/3x4 and masks 9 and 10 for 4x5.

This one. from an original Graflex source, might be better to use:

Or this:

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

BrianShaw said:
I'd be wary of that table as there seems to be errors in it, especially regarding masks 2 and 9 for 2x3/3x4 and masks 9 and 10 for 4x5.

This one. from an original Graflex source, might be better to use:

Ah! Thank you very much!

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

ntenny said:
That was my thought too, but it sure won’t fit in the 1” space mentioned by the OP. A tiny little tele in that range seems like an odd bird—my guess would be that it’s a red herring and the space in the case was not originally used for the lens that goes with the #8 mask.

I haven’t shot much with the 10” Tele-Optar, but it seems like a decent lens based on a test shot or two.

-NT

I know. The compartment looks about right for the 135mm Optar, but then that means the other lens would have to fold-up in the camera. Can't be that much more room in the closed camera.

There are a lot of film holders in there; maybe they displaced the lens before it was sold. Who knows?

I'll have a look at the Tele-Optar; thanks!

BrianShaw · Mar 6, 2023

Forgive me if I come across as rude but I’m confused about your goal. Are you seeking a lens to fit the viewfinder mask or infinity stop placement, or looking for a longer lens to fulfill an image-making goal?

And a question from my absolute ignorance… does anyone make 3x4 film anymore?

Did you measure between the infinity stop and film plane?

AnselMortensen · Mar 6, 2023

Ilford ULF program makes 3x4, and 3x4 is also available from Shanghai, last I checked.

BrianShaw · Mar 6, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
Ilford ULF program makes 3x4, and 3x4 is also available from Shanghai, last I checked.

Well I’ll be…

Apparently Freestyle has 3x4 film in stock: FP-4, HP-5, and Adox 100. I never noticed before!

peter k. · Mar 6, 2023

Or cut in down to size as we do, from what ever 4x5 stock ya have or like. ;-)

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

BrianShaw said:
Forgive me if I come across as rude but I’m confused about your goal. Are you seeking a lens to fit the viewfinder mask or infinity stop placement, or looking for a longer lens to fulfill an image-making goal?

Both. This kit once (supposedly) belonged to a Red Sox official photographer, so I am curious as to what might have been used.

BrianShaw said:
And a question from my absolute ignorance… does anyone make 3x4 film anymore?

I have a 50 count box of Shanghai.

BrianShaw said:
Did you measure between the infinity stop and film plane?

It's right at 5.25 inches on the left-most infinity setting and only 1/32 of an inch shorter distance on the right-most infinity setting.

Neither focus scale seems exactly right, but the left one is the most close when focusing on the ground glass with the 135 Optar.

BrianShaw · Mar 6, 2023

Thinking out loud... seems like there might be some mismatch going on. 5.25 inch is 133 mm, which is not far from where the infinity stop might be for a 135mm lens. The viewfinder mask isn't even close to that, nor is it close to the other infinity stop either since the distance from it to focla plane is less. I'm guessing that the mask is just a random piece of extra equipment related to Graflex Graphic but not necessarily to the configuation of your camera and it's infinity stops. The Pacemaker 34 was generally delivered with a 127mm lens, ~~and in that era I would expect a MX shutter rather than an X-only shutter. I'm thinking the lens and shutter may be newer than the body.~~ Nonetheless, with the infinity stops and rangefinder properly set up for the 135mm lens, you'll have a blast shooting with it. Good luck!

Edit: Looking at some original Pacemaker documentation, I was completely incorrect about the statement, above, that has been stricken. Both shutters are contemporary and potentially original to the Pacemaker Graphic.

Kino · Mar 6, 2023

Thanks.

I think you're right about randomness of the masks and infinity stops.

I'll just try to finesse the 135 for now and worry about other lenses later.

Time to fry some hair with a press 25 bulb!

BrianShaw · Mar 6, 2023

You’ll do fine with that 135 Optar. It’s really a decent lens.

Flash bulbs are not just fun but a whole lot of light. If you are not aware, the X-synch shutter isn’t optimal for bulbs. M-synch is for bulbs; X-synch for electronic strobe. You can use X and bulbs but only at 1/30 second or slower. A bit limiting yet still possible.

jimgalli · Mar 7, 2023

135 Convertible Symmar becomes a 260mm f12 with the front removed.

Kino · Mar 7, 2023

jimgalli said:
135 Convertible Symmar becomes a 260mm f12 with the front removed.

Ah, good to know, Jim! I had a convertible Linhof Schneider 240/420 once on a 5x7 B&H and really liked that lens. Should never have sold that camera...

3.25 x 4.25 Pacemaker Speed Graphic lens around 217 to 304mm?

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