2nd Fixer - Where in Workflow for Selinium Toned Print?

David Allen said:

In 'The Print' Ansel Adams uses the word 'store' to describe storing prints in a tray of plain water before the plain hypo bath and toning.

If, however, you mean you want to (dry) store your prints for a period of time you will have to fully fix (to ensure that there is no residual silver) and thoroughly wash them (to ensure that the fixer does not stain the prints whilst they are being stored).

What is important to note in the sequence that Adams describes in 'The Print' is that he is not using a two-bath fixing regime in the way that we currently understand it (two fixing baths to ensure thorough fixing). What Adams describes is fixing in Acid-Hardening fixer for 3 minutes (which represents complete fixing of the paper when the fixer is fresh). He then stores the (fully fixed) prints in water until he is ready to tone them. The following immersion in plain hypo has nothing to do with ensuring the prints are fully fixed but rather ensuring that they have a neutral PH to:

• Ensure that there is no staining of the prints.
• Ensure that (should there be excessive acidity) no precipitate forms in the Selenium toner (thereby rending it unusable - although I have never seen this happen but Adams refers to it in 'The Print').

Hope that clears this up.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Click to expand...

David,

I must be slow so I apologize in advance. I'm still not clear.

When I say 'store' I mean store in a deep tray of water as Ansel means, not dried and stored in a box.


I'll state my question again.

The question I have is can I do the 1st fix (Kodak), rinse, then the 2nd fix (pure hypo), rinse, then store the print in a tray of water, then tone & wash?

What I'm trying to understand is if there is any reason to store the print in a tray of water after the 1st fix (Kodak) but before putting the print in the 2nd fix (pure hypo)? The only difference I see is that there would be some leeching effect of the Kodak fixer when the print is stored in water after the 1st fix but before the 2nd fixer.

I think the leeching effect would happen after the 2nd pure hypo fix as well if I store in water after doing both fixes then storing the print in water.

Have I clearly re-stated my question? Thanks!

David Allen said:

...... The following immersion in plain hypo has nothing to do with ensuring the prints are fully fixed but rather ensuring that they have a neutral PH to:

• Ensure that there is no staining of the prints.
• Ensure that (should there be excessive acidity) no precipitate forms in the Selenium toner (thereby rending it unusable - although I have never seen this happen but Adams refers to it in 'The Print').

Hope that clears this up.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Click to expand...

I've been thinking of using plain hypo (and a little sodium sulphite) as my second fix after a "normal" first fix. It does mean that the used bath_2 wouldn't be suitable to become the next bath_1 but hypo is very cheap.

aoresteen said:

... I'm still not clear...

I'll state my question again.

The question I have is: can I do the 1st fix (Kodak), rinse, then the 2nd fix (pure hypo), rinse, then store the print in a tray of water, then tone & wash?

What I'm trying to understand is if there is any reason to store the print in a tray of water after the 1st fix (Kodak) but before putting the print in the 2nd fix (pure hypo)? The only difference I see is that there would be some leeching effect of the Kodak fixer when the print is stored in water after the 1st fix but before the 2nd fixer.

I think the leeching effect would happen after the 2nd pure hypo fix as well if I store in water after doing both fixes then storing the print in water.

Have I clearly re-stated my question? Thanks!

Click to expand...

I'm not David, but I'll take a shot at this.

In answer to your first question: NO, you cannot just "store" prints in a water bath between the second fix and the toner. Either transfer them directly without a rinse (and from a neutral or alkaline fixer) or wash completely before toning. Is that clear enough? "Storing" but not washing thoroughly invites staining.

Second question: there is no reason to "store" a print in a water bath between the first and second fixers. However, a good 30-second rinse in running water will effectively neutralize a print fixed in an acid fixer and prevent carry-over to the second (presumably neutral or alkaline fix). If you're using a plain hypo fix for fix 2, this step is indispensable. If you're using a buffered fixer like TF-4 or TF-5 (or even Ilford Rapid Fixer) for both baths, then it's not so important.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with "leeching." Perhaps you mean diffusion of the fixer into the water bath (i.e., the beginning stages of washing)? If so, then as already mentioned, you should rinse between fix one and fix 2 if you use plain hypo for fix 2. Don't do a short-term storage in water before the toner; transfer directly or wash completely. After that, you can store the print in water if you want, but I recommend you mix up a wash-aid and simply transfer the print from the toner to the wash-aid (with or without an intermediate rinse; the rinse will extend the capacity of your wash-aid a bit though). After the wash-aid, wash the print, stabilize if you wish and dry.

Hope this helps.

Doremus