25 year old Optima

[Joel_L]

Very recently picked up an EOS-1V for my collection and added a Canon 24-70L 2.8 II ( always wanted this lens back when I bought my EOS-3 in 1999, think it was the 28-70 at the time ). I put a roll of very old Optima through it using my diluted and time adjusted process. I made no compensation for ISO and no extra developing time adjustments. I am pleased with what I got for results. I think I have 15+ rolls of this film left.

I was shutter speed challenged for a couple of them, I'm not as steady as I used to be. JPG compression is also affecting a couple.

 

[Paul Howell]

Looks really good for 25 year old color film.

 

[Joel_L]

All my film lives in a fridge, sure that helps.

 

[albada]

From your title, I thought you were shooting with an Agfa Optima camera. But those are around 60 years old, not 25.
Anyway, you're making me think I should try some expired C-41 film in my freezer.

Mark

 

[Romanko]

I put a roll of very old Optima through it using my diluted and time adjusted process.

Could you be so kind and share the details of your process?

 

[Beverly Hills]

From your title, I thought you were shooting with an Agfa Optima camera. But those are around 60 years old, not 25.
Anyway, you're making me think I should try some expired C-41 film in my freezer.

Mark

albada, have a look at this here :

 

[Beverly Hills]

Could you be so kind and share the details of your process?

+1

 

[Beverly Hills]

Very recently picked up an EOS-1V for my collection and added a Canon 24-70L 2.8 II ( always wanted this lens back when I bought my EOS-3 in 1999, think it was the 28-70 at the time ). I put a roll of very old Optima through it using my diluted and time adjusted process. I made no compensation for ISO and no extra developing time adjustments. I am pleased with what I got for results. I think I have 15+ rolls of this film left.

I was shutter speed challenged for a couple of them, I'm not as steady as I used to be. JPG compression is also affecting a couple.

View attachment 333607 View attachment 333608 View attachment 333609

Hi Joel from Colorado, 3 weeks ago I was still in Fort Collins - visiting my onkle and auntie ...

...... you have c41 homebrew.
There was a compenstion table from Rollei I remember.

A hitherto unique publication of a manufacturer about the approach outside the c41 standard.

It was about time adjustments at different temperatures.

Joel let me ask : you did NOT adjust ISO during shooting ?

Your developer is deluted with time adjustments for example:
4:15 (3:15).......you did not need an extra adjustment
( you brew Optima in your special standard soup)

then you adjust temperature ?

 

[Joel_L]

I do not process very often ( except recently I seem to be ), so I leave my chemistry is their concentrated form and not dilute until I run a roll. I also purge the concentrates after use ( I use Argon, just because I also have it for welding ).

For any given kit, I look at the kit capacity, pick a number of rolls that I would be happy with. The point here is what you are happy with. Most kits have a stated capacity, most kits can process more rolls than that.

From there, when I process a single roll, I figure how much concentrate to mix into the volume of chemistry I need to process that single roll.

Example ( Using Bellini C-41 kit ), it states 16 x 24 exposure rolls of 35mm. Because I mix fresh each time and use one shot, I decided to try for 15 rolls of 36 exposure.

My tank needs 140ml of chemistry, to mix full working strength would take 66ml of developer to make 140ml of chemistry. The kits first developer comes with 260ml of concentrate, so using one shot I would only get 7 rolls processed.
What I did was take the 260ml and divide that by the 15 rolls I want to get out of the kit, so I mix 17ml of the developer to make 140ml.

From there I look at the processing times vs number of rolls processed. In the Bellini kit it showed for rolls 13-16 to use 4:00. So that is my starting point.

I do the same for the bleach and fix, divide the concentrate ml by the number of rolls I want to get out of it. For the bleach and fix I double the standard times.

I have just started using the Bellini kits and so far are working well, I have not adjusted my development time yet.

I do the same with the Bellini E6 kit with similar results.

Now, If I run multiple rolls, things get better, the chemistry I mix gets closer to the "normal" ratio.

I have been doing it this way for over 30 years using Kodak, Tetenal, Arista, and other chemicals with the same results, The film I processed 30 years ago has not faded or otherwise done something odd.

My concentrates have lasted as short as a few months to over a year, It has always been visually obvious that a developer is dead.

Back to my Optima film, it is a bulk roll of Optima 100 I bought many years ago. I shot it at "box" speed and processed as mentioned above. I also have some Provia 100F that is about 10 years old with no negative effects.

 

[Beverly Hills]

I do not process very often ( except recently I seem to be ), so I leave my chemistry is their concentrated form and not dilute until I run a roll. I also purge the concentrates after use ( I use Argon, just because I also have it for welding ).

For any given kit, I look at the kit capacity, pick a number of rolls that I would be happy with. The point here is what you are happy with. Most kits have a stated capacity, most kits can process more rolls than that.

From there, when I process a single roll, I figure how much concentrate to mix into the volume of chemistry I need to process that single roll.

Example ( Using Bellini C-41 kit ), it states 16 x 24 exposure rolls of 35mm. Because I mix fresh each time and use one shot, I decided to try for 15 rolls of 36 exposure.

My tank needs 140ml of chemistry, to mix full working strength would take 66ml of developer to make 140ml of chemistry. The kits first developer comes with 260ml of concentrate, so using one shot I would only get 7 rolls processed.
What I did was take the 260ml and divide that by the 15 rolls I want to get out of the kit, so I mix 17ml of the developer to make 140ml.

From there I look at the processing times vs number of rolls processed. In the Bellini kit it showed for rolls 13-16 to use 4:00. So that is my starting point.

I do the same for the bleach and fix, divide the concentrate ml by the number of rolls I want to get out of it. For the bleach and fix I double the standard times.

I have just started using the Bellini kits and so far are working well, I have not adjusted my development time yet.

I do the same with the Bellini E6 kit with similar results.

Now, If I run multiple rolls, things get better, the chemistry I mix gets closer to the "normal" ratio.

I have been doing it this way for over 30 years using Kodak, Tetenal, Arista, and other chemicals with the same results, The film I processed 30 years ago has not faded or otherwise done something odd.

My concentrates have lasted as short as a few months to over a year, It has always been visually obvious that a developer is dead.

Back to my Optima film, it is a bulk roll of Optima 100 I bought many years ago. I shot it at "box" speed and processed as mentioned above. I also have some Provia 100F that is about 10 years old with no negative effects.

Thanks Joel for this comprehensive representation of your
development process.

1.)....…I had overlooked due to quick reading that you stored your films frozen. That explain most of it.

2) ......I remember that I also have Optima 100 ft rolls, it just occurs to me that there should be 2 or even 3 rolls.
Optima II 100. That is now worth a fortune!
3) most Optima I stored are 120 Agfa Portrait 160
4) from my point of viev there is no c41 kit on the market wich is fully dead if you have reached capacity what manufacturers states .....+ 1/3 / + 1/2 at the very max. capacity is posssible. Sure you have to longer processing or higher temperature. And you should make serious tests.
5) the more concentrated stock solution is fine for storage
and the " just in time dillution" before processing start as you described is a good way!

6) but THE issue of suspence (out of c41 spec)
is : how is the quality ! And to have an answer you have to wait
for many years. Here is an example after 30 years - bravo
Joel.

 

[Joel_L]

Yes, my process is definitely out of spec, that's were you you have to look at the results and decide if they are good enough for you. For me, this is all fun and games and the results are OK for me. If I were to ever do something that I thought I captured something exceptional on a roll, I might consider wasting some chemistry and processing it as it should be. Even then, I don't run test strips, measure density....... I pretty much just control time and temperature the best I can and call it a day.

 

[Beverly Hills]

ATTENTION NEWBIES , what is described here is  NOT to be understood as a guide : How I have to develope c41!

There are basically methods that can work alternatively,
but sometimes it also goes wrong, so you can try it at your own risc.

Basically, I personally see things as follows with c41 development.

1) the shots of life were captures on film , best example is the famous zapruder film = best comercial lab you can find !
2) very nice shots, that are very important to you personally =
comercial lab
3) normal photography = try to develop c41 yourself with comercial developer exactly according manufacturers instruction
4) good photography = EVERYTHING IS ALLOWED = make your own soup from raw chemicals and find your style.


@ Joel, I think it's allways crucial to break the rules once you master them - agree.. ?

 

[Joel_L]

I think doing cook book processing is important until you know what you are doing ( Master? ).

As far as commercial labs, I'm sure there are some that are reliable and consistent, but at this point, I trust myself more. The only thing I might do if something was very important to me would be to run a test roll first to make sure my chemicals are still up to snuff.

To add, using my diluted process compared side by side with full process, I have not noticed enough difference ( if any really ) to change.