23C & 45 Negative Carrier Sizes

[ChristopherCoy]

I’m needing to acquire a 6x7 negative carrier for the 45MX. There seems to be some confusion amongst sellers and sometimes the paddle looking carriers are listed as 23C carriers instead of the 45.

Are those round paddle looking carriers for the 45 and the 23C the same size? Are they interchangeable? Or is the 23C smaller in circumference?

 

[Rick A]

This might help.
http://store.khbphotografix.com/Beseler-Negative-Carriers/

 

[woodlandSerenade]

The 6x7 negative carrier for a Beseler 45-series enlarger is part number 8328. They seem pretty hard to come by. I just use the 6x9 carrier and mask off the extra width.
The carriers for the 23c are noticably smaller in circumference. The attached images are both glassless 35mm carriers for the 23c and 45, respectively.
The 23c carriers are far too small to be used in the 45 series enlargers, and I would assume they are incompatible the other way around as well.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

This might help.
http://store.khbphotografix.com/Beseler-Negative-Carriers/

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Aw they’re funny. Hilarious. $275?!?!?!?!?!? I’ll cut one from a milk carton before I pay that amount..

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Yeah- the two carriers are NOT the same size. The 45 series carriers are a lot bigger. I think the best thing you can do in the interim is either as suggested mask a 6x9 or get a 6x6 and file it out to 6x7 (a dremel with cutoff wheels and a lot of patience is the best approach to this... I did it to convert a 6x9 into a 6x12).

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Yeah- the two carriers are NOT the same size. The 45 series carriers are a lot bigger. I think the best thing you can do in the interim is either as suggested mask a 6x9 or get a 6x6 and file it out to 6x7 (a dremel with cutoff wheels and a lot of patience is the best approach to this... I did it to convert a 6x9 into a 6x12).

I found an eBay seller that 3D prints them. Might go that route.

 

[voceumana]

The KHB price is in Canadian dollars, and works out to about $219 US--BH Photovideo price is $230; Freestyle is $190.

This ad is for a custom 3D printed one for $35: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printed...322044?hash=item216e972d3c:g:YnAAAOSwVD1epHSa

The prices are the reality of such photo products these days.

 

[MattKing]

As the 6x7 size is a relatively recent phenomenon, there are relatively fewer of them available on the used market.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

The prices are the reality of such photo products these days.

Maybe for others, but not this dummy. Ain’t no way in hell I’d ever pay more than maybe $50 for one. These people are smoking crack.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

As the 6x7 size is a relatively recent phenomenon, there are relatively fewer of them available on the used market.

I’ll take a black plastic folder or something and cut a 6x7 mask for one of my 4x5 holders or something.

 

[Valerie]

Cut one out of black mat board. That's what I did for a long time before getting "real" ones.

 

[MattKing]

The prices are the reality of such photo products these days.

They probably are close to the reality of the prices back in the day when Christopher's enlarger was new, when you adjust for inflation. Our perception of what might be an appropriate price has been skewed by the market prices in recent years.
I recently received a great Christmas present - a brand new, current product 6x7 Universal glass carrier for my LPL medium format enlargers - $179.00 CDN + shipping and taxes from KHB. When I consider how much use I will get from it, that is a very reasonable price.
If you expect to do a lot of work with that carrier, keep looking for a used one. The heavy, purpose built metal ones will have advantages over a 3d printed version. That weight matters when your film curls.
Enlarging a 6x6 carrier would be a good option, if you could find a machine shop that would do it at reasonable cost.

 

[Rick A]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Aw they’re funny. Hilarious. $275?!?!?!?!?!? I’ll cut one from a milk carton before I pay that amount..

I didn't suggest you purchase from them, but you can get the correct part number for the carrier you are looking for.

 

[voceumana]

Well the KHB price is less than BH--Freestyle is the bargain of the lot, but remember these are brand new prices, not used/refurbished.

The LPL 6x7 universal glass carrier at $180 Can. is a bargain for the utility it provides--built in masking blades. Very nicely built. One of the reasons I chose LPL enlargers is their negative carriers seems better built than Omega or Beseler--that, and they just seem to have been better thought out.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I didn't suggest you purchase from them, but you can get the correct part number for the carrier you are looking for.

I know. That was just a shock. Even the used ones at KHB are $219CAD

 

[Lachlan Young]

According to the 1973 pricelist I have before me, inclusive of the VAT of the day and corrected for todays' money as how much it would cost as a percentage of average income, a Beseler 45 holder for 6x7 (interestingly there are variants for Mamiya, Koni-Omega and Graflex XL listed) would work out to be... GBP 194.40 - so somewhere in the middling 200 USD range. For further reference, a new 45CB7 + condenser head would equate to well over 8000 GBP, and a 45MX + condensor would equate to around 6000 GBP new. The 400w Dichro head is up in the same price range as the complete CB7 + condenser. The 23C-II equates to about 2500-3000 GBP today. And this was in an era when darkroom equipment was pretty popular.

 

[Sirius Glass]

This might help.
http://store.khbphotografix.com/Beseler-Negative-Carriers/

+1,000

Also FreeStyle and Photrio.

 

[mshchem]

This has all the numbers

https://www.oresteen.com/bes 45 carriers.htm

 

[mshchem]

I've got a 2002 Shutterbug magazine, B&H was getting 85 USD for ordinary carriers. I've accumulated my carriers over time. For years you could buy this stuff cheap. The 6x7 and 6x9 carriers were always harder to find.

Craigslist, Ebay etc. The carriers are easy to ship, so even when enlargers were scrapped the carriers, lens boards etc were saved and sold on Ebay.

 

[Lachlan Young]

This has all the numbers

https://www.oresteen.com/bes 45 carriers.htm

Mostly - it's missing 8237 and 8329 - 8327 = Koni-Omega's 6x7 format & 8329 = Graflex XL's 6x7 format.

 

[bdial]

Order up two sheets of aluminum, cut and drill them accurately, insert a couple of machined alignment pins then anodize it, test it to make sure it's flat and fits the target enlarger properly, stamp your initials on it, then offer it up for sale. Let us know how much you'd like to get for that effort.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Order up two sheets of aluminum, cut and drill them accurately, insert a couple of machined alignment pins then anodize it, test it to make sure it's flat and fits the target enlarger properly, stamp your initials on it, then offer it up for sale. Let us know how much you'd like to get for that effort.

Your argument is irrelevant.

 

[voceumana]

Order up two sheets of aluminum, cut and drill them accurately, insert a couple of machined alignment pins then anodize it, test it to make sure it's flat and fits the target enlarger properly, stamp your initials on it, then offer it up for sale. Let us know how much you'd like to get for that effort.

Not just that, but do a lot of 25, and keep them around for when somebody happens to want one. People who expect these things to be dirt cheap do not understand manufacturing costs and running a business.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Not just that, but do a lot of 25, and keep them around for when somebody happens to want one. People who expect these things to be dirt cheap do not understand manufacturing costs and running a business.

You think so? It just so happens that I’ve worked in a similar industry. I purchased raw aluminum and materials and I've worked the manufacturing line. Aside from the initial cost of the machines, stamping these things out one after the other amounts to mere dollars if not cents. There is no reason these things should be hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Y’all can go argue my financial decisions elsewhere.

 

[mshchem]

You think so? It just so happens that I’ve worked in a similar industry. I purchased raw aluminum and materials and I've worked the manufacturing line. Aside from the initial cost of the machines, stamping these things out one after the other amounts to mere dollars if not cents. There is no reason these things should be hundreds and hundreds of dollars. Y’all can go argue my financial decisions elsewhere.

I just browsed through Ebay, all the Beseler carriers were 4x5, 6x6, or 35mm. Then lots of leftover junk, mounted slides 16mm 3x4 Polaroid stuff. You need to wait until the one you are after pops up, or buy the 6x6 and find a good machinist or carefully file out the 6x6. I've done this, my project was to make a 24x54mm for wide 35mm back for Bronica.

Maybe you should cut some mat board until one pops up.

It's amazing usually there's at least a couple 120 sizes but all I see are 6x6