220 Film/Foil Wrapper

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

Hello all,

I recently got round to selling on ebay some 220 film that I had sitting in my freezer (inside a plastic bag) doing nothing. On one of the rolls, the foil wrapping had a slight tear where you open it. I admit I failed to mention this as, to my knowledge, this would in no way effect the performance of the film. Besides which there was no damage to the actual film.

Here's the listing, for what it's worth: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281100817474?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649

This film was part of a load of rolls that a photographer friend sold me, amongst which were a couple of rolls of 120 in no foil wrapping. Having used those rolls, I can safely say I never had a problem.

Also worth noting, I recently sold 6 other rolls of 220, two of which had no foil wrapping (which you could see in the picture).

Anyway, I'm now getting hassle off the buyer who says that because of the tear the film has been exposed to the elements and is thus unsafe to use. My question is, if he opens a dispute with ebay and tries to get his money back (which is where I can see it heading), will I have a leg to stand on? It's only £10 but still, I think he's being pedantic and I wanted to know from fellow photogs if I'm right or not with regards to the wrapping.

Bill Burk · May 11, 2013

I'd refund the buyer - your reputation is worth more than ten pounds. If the buyer is stand-up, he would insist you only refund half.

Sure it's probably fine. But I would be devastated to find my stock of Panatomic-X weren't perfectly sealed and atmosphere was/could be getting in (moisture in the freezer specifically). So I understand the buyer's concern.

Tom1956 · May 11, 2013

I'd say give him his money back. I wouldn't want it either. Too many potential condensation problems. Would YOU want it? Not worth having your rating blistered.

wblynch · May 11, 2013

Force him to return the film first at his expense. If it comes back opened or other than as sent, you have a case for a partial refund. But you won't win with Ebay.

tnabbott · May 11, 2013

Bill Burk said:
I'd refund the buyer - your reputation is worth more than ten pounds. If the buyer is stand-up, he would insist you only refund half.

Sure it's probably fine. But I would be devastated to find my stock of Panatomic-X weren't perfectly sealed and atmosphere was/could be getting in (moisture in the freezer specifically). So I understand the buyer's concern.

Why would the buyer have to seek only a half refund to be stand-up? Just asking...

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

I'm not willing to give him his money back outright without him asking. If he asks, I'll advise him to send the film back in the condition he found it in and only then will I refund the money.

What happens if he sends it back and one or both films are out of the wrapper?

Bill Burk · May 11, 2013

tnabbott said:
Why would the buyer have to seek only a half refund to be stand-up? Just asking...

Only one of the two rolls in the auction had broken seal.

Can't do too much about refunding shipping cost either... was shipped for free...

MattKing · May 11, 2013

I would advise you to refund the money.

Your listing says the film had been "stored correctly".

An opening in the foil is arguably not "stored correctly".

For ten pounds, it isn't worth the hassle or risk to your feedback score.

Tom1956 · May 11, 2013

I just looked it up. Fifteen bucks. Just not worth it, either way. But that 15 dollars can sure tear your EBAY rating up for a long time. Some day you're liable to want to sell a nice Hasselblad or something, and the auction will end at 400 dollars instead of 850, just because people saw that 94% (or whatever) rating of yours and not bid. No way, Ray. I'd give him his money and shipping in a heartbeat, and learn a lesson about selling questionable stuff like that. I'm not harping on you, but torn-open film? What were you thinking?

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

Tom1956 said:
I just looked it up. Fifteen bucks. Just not worth it, either way. But that 15 dollars can sure tear your EBAY rating up for a long time. Some day you're liable to want to sell a nice Hasselblad or something, and the auction will end at 400 dollars instead of 850, just because people saw that 94% (or whatever) rating of yours and not bid. No way, Ray. I'd give him his money and shipping in a heartbeat, and learn a lesson about selling questionable stuff like that. I'm not harping on you, but torn-open film? What were you thinking?

The film wasn't torn open, the foil was.

Oh and shipping came free.

Bill Burk · May 11, 2013

MamiyaJen said:
The film wasn't torn open, the foil was.

Oh and shipping came free.

You could offer to refund the shipping.

But seriously, consider your reputation. It's more important than money. Especially small amounts of money.

I personally wouldn't have complained about it, I'd use the film. But like I said, if any of my stock of film were unsealed, I would worry about how good it is.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

Bill Burk said:
You could offer to refund the shipping.

But seriously, consider your reputation. It's more important than money. Especially small amounts of money.

I personally wouldn't have complained about it, I'd use the film. But like I said, if any of my stock of film were unsealed, I would worry about how good it is.

I've sent him a message. Told him that if he'd like a refund then he can send me the film back in the same condition I sent it to him. He's yet to reply so we'll see. Like i said, I'm confident the film is absolutely fine. It was only a week previous that I sold 6 other films, 2 of which were not in the foil wrapper with no complaints. And I could see his point almost if we were talking about a massive tear, but it wasn't torn more than a couple of mm.

Anyway, we'll see what he thinks to my offer.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

desertratt said:
Obviously, you want to stiff the dude and take your lumps. So go ahead. You SHOULD have disclosed. It is simple as that.

Yes, that's precisely what I want to do. How clever of you to know exactly what I'm thinking. Have you thought of making money from your extraordinary gift?

BrianShaw · May 11, 2013

MamiyaJen said:
...Anyway, we'll see what he thinks to my offer.

I can't wait to hear what happens. If I were you I would have listened to Bill (his first posting) and sent immediately the 50% refund with an apology for not better photographing the film's packaging. Look at the photo with an open mind -- one side of each is not clearly shown, and some might interpret that as knowingly not disclosing hte "defect". But if I were your buyer I'd write it off and give you neutral (what would be fair) or negative (if I were really upset) feedback. I know wht you are thinking: the open packaging might not be a problem, but I know waht the buyer is thinking: I'm not sure and I'll only find out when/ir my photos fail because of it.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

BrianShaw said:
I can't wait to hear what happens. If I were you I would have listened to Bill (his first posting). If I were your buyer I'd write it off and give you neutral (what would be fair) or negative (if I were really upset) feedback. I know wht you are thinking: the open packaging might not be a problem, but I know waht the buyer is thinking: I'm not sure and I'll only find out when/ir my photos fail because of it.

To be fair, I did make it clear that the film was expired and listed it under 'used' condition. Anyway, I don't think he'll get back to me today. There was a couple of days between his first and second messages.

BrianShaw · May 11, 2013

I think you are making too much out of it. It is only 5 pounds for the one roll of film. Is 5 pounds so dear that so much of a fuss needs to be raised? Just asking...

The risk (whether you are right or wrong about the film being OK) is being full transferred by you to the buyer; what's so fair about that?

I don't understand why you don't want to act like a responsible seller.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

BrianShaw said:
I think you are making too much out of it. It is only 5 pounds for the one roll of film. Is 5 pounds so dear that so much of a fuss needs to be raised? Just asking...

The risk (whether you are right or wrong about the film being OK) is being full transferred to the buyer; what's so fair about that?

I don't understand why you don't want to act like a responsible seller.

Because the buyer is being unnecessarily arsey about it after I explained why I didn't mention the tear. I came on here asking a genuine question as to whether or not the foil wrapper being torn would in any way effect the performance of the film and I'm getting hassle over my ethics as a seller (which I do on ebay about once in a blue moon, btw).

No, £5/10 is not a massive amount of money but I got the feeling the buyer was either nit picking or, in the case of so many other ebayers, had spotted the tear and saw an opportunity to mess me about.

I've admitted to him I should have mentioned the tear but explained why I didn't. I wasn't trying to mess him about, I wasn't trying to stiff him. It's £10 for pities sake, but if someone tries messing me about I'm not going to take it lightly. I've messaged him offering him a refund if he wishes to send me the film back (I'd have to be a complete idiot to offer a refund with no goods in return, £10 or not). How am I possibly 'making too much out of it'? All i wanted to know was if the wrapper being torn would damage the film.

tnabbott · May 11, 2013

MamiyaJen said:
The film wasn't torn open, the foil was.

Oh and shipping came free.

FWIW, based on what you have described, a full refund upon return of the goods seems fair. Any deviation from your description on the auction can lead to problems. Certainly, some buyers won't care if there is a slight deviation, but many will and if you were in their shoes, you might too. Seems like a "karma" thing as much as anything else.

BrianShaw · May 11, 2013

MamiyaJen said:
Because the buyer is being unnecessarily arsey about it ...

but if someone tries messing me about I'm not going to take it lightly. ...

I need to bite my tongue at this point. Sorry you're not getting the "love" you are looking for. I'm speaking from the perspective of an experienced photographer and an experience buyer of old film and camera accessories, and an occasional seller who has run into "problem buyers" before too. Good luck to you!

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

BrianShaw said:
I need to bite my tongue at this point. Sorry you're not getting the "love" you are looking for. I'm speaking from the perspective of an experienced photographer and an experience buyer of old film and camera accessories. Good luck to you!

I'm not looking for 'love', I was looking for a straight answer, not a lecture on ebay etiquette.

BrianShaw · May 11, 2013

MamiyaJen said:
... All i wanted to know was if the wrapper being torn would damage the film.

Straight answer: Possibly.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

tnabbott said:
FWIW, based on what you have described, a full refund upon return of the goods seems fair. Any deviation from your description on the auction can lead to problems. Certainly, some buyers won't care if there is a slight deviation, but many will and if you were in their shoes, you might too. Seems like a "karma" thing as much as anything else.

Which is what I've offered. I can perfectly understand that I should have mentioned it, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I've given my reasons and we'll see if he accepts them.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

BrianShaw said:
Straight answer: Possibly.

Thank you. That's all I wanted. I said originally that I didn't think it would effect the film as it never has in my experience. And as I said to the buyer, the film itself has never been touched/tampered with in any way.

BrianShaw · May 11, 2013

... and since you asked if you have a leg to stand on in your first post: I predict that if it goes to an ebay dispute you will not.

MamiyaJen · May 11, 2013

BrianShaw said:
... and since you asked if you have a leg to stand on in your first post: I predict that if it goes to an ebay dispute you will not.

Will have to wait and see. Out of interest, do you know if he ignores my offer and opens a dispute, will he still have to return the film? If he wants a refund he can have it but I'm not too keen on giving one without getting the film back. That would definitely make me arsey if I'm honest!

220 Film/Foil Wrapper

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