20x24 what is Your favorite detail

Falkenberg · Dec 20, 2007

After reading all the threads on 20x24 cameras I can see that there are a lot of different cameras out there both home made and cameras from different "factories".

I would like to know what You consider the best detail on Your 20x24 outfit. Please post pictures of the details.

I have a clear idea of how my homemade 20x24 camera should be, but I am open to ideas from others. I am not out to start a production of 20x24 cameras and I am not in the market for a camera (unless it is dirt cheap).

sanking · Dec 20, 2007

Falkenberg said:
After reading all the threads on 20x24 cameras I can see that there are a lot of different cameras out there both home made and cameras from different "factories".

I would like to know what You consider the best detail on Your 20x24 outfit. Please post pictures of the details.

I have a clear idea of how my homemade 20x24 camera should be, but I am open to ideas from others. I am not out to start a production of 20x24 cameras and I am not in the market for a camera (unless it is dirt cheap).

The single most important detail of the 20X24 camera that Richard Ritter just made for me is the carbon fiber bed. It is this bed that allows for the very light weight. You can see a picture of this in the thread on 20X24 sighting.

Sandy King

mark · Dec 20, 2007

Falkenberg said:
(unless it is dirt cheap).

From what I understand even homemade does not fit this bill. Good luck.

Falkenberg · Dec 20, 2007

I know very well that even a homemade camera will be expensive, but not as much as the prefabricated ones. And I get to have all my ideas made in the camera by making it myself.

Dave Wooten · Dec 20, 2007

RobertP said:
Mark, Good point. Dirt cheap doesn't even describe the price of a single sheet of film. I don't understand why someone would want to spend that kind of money on 20x24 film and then shoot it with a cobbled up shoe box for a camera........Sandy, I love the photo on Ritter's website of him jumping on top of the bed rails. Good stuff....Robert

Quality is the ticket...if one is seriously planning projects with this format, the highest quality equipment is the only way to go. It certainly pays off,
so the term "cheaper" does nt apply.

Curt · Dec 20, 2007

Dirt cheap doesn't even describe the price of a single sheet of film. I don't understand why someone would want to spend that kind of money on 20x24 film and then shoot it with a cobbled up shoe box for a camera.

Me neither, except for that person who is so driven that they defy all odds, comes up with something that works for them. I never put down people with below the market level resources who make their own equipment.

Curt

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 20, 2007

Well, sometimes the format size is a material part of the vision.

The Lotus I've seen has one of the nicest bail backs on any camera. It's not my camera, so I can't post a photo, but you can probably find a picture on the Lotus web site.

Dave Wooten · Dec 20, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
Well, sometimes the format size is a material part of the vision.

The Lotus I've seen has one of the nicest bail backs on any camera. It's not my camera, so I can't post a photo, but you can probably find a picture on the Lotus web site.

Yep that bail is a really nice feature. If I remember correctly it was 2 bails-small ones with short throws...one on each side of the back.

keithwms · Dec 21, 2007

In Magnachrom volume 1 issue 6 there is a nice feature on a Lotus 14x17.

Zebra · Dec 21, 2007

Robert,

Who did you decide to go with for your 16 x 20 or do you have the skills to make one yourself? Good luck regardless, its mainly just me being curious and happy people are enjoying these larger formats.

Monty

Zebra · Dec 21, 2007

Robert,

Alan will do a great job on the wet plate holder. My Ebony was built around an AWB holder system which was then shipped to Ebony so that it could be precise. I also had a 16 x 20 reducing back made at the same time for wet plate/pt pd work as well. In for a dime, in for a dollar. As to the deep pockets believe me I understand. I sold a piece of ground in Texas and negotiated in the price of the camera unbeknownst to the buyers. I figured I had one shot in life at something like this so I jumped in hoping there was water in the bottom of the pool. I have to feed the thing on 'real life' money though which makes for some interesting sacrifices around these parts! I don't regret it though. Life isn't as long as I would like it to be, might as well go up to edge and peer over every once in a while.

best,

Monty

epatsellis · Dec 21, 2007

Curt said:
Me neither, except for that person who is so driven that they defy all odds, comes up with something that works for them. I never put down people with below the market level resources who make their own equipment.

Curt

It really depends on how much you enjoy building things. In my case, I have a plethora of 16x20 and 20x24 lith film, inexpensive lenses that cover and a packard shutter, as well as a set of bellows lying about. Would I prefer to use a nice new, geared everything camera, sure, but in reality, for very little $$$ outlay, I have the capability to shoot 20x24, and since I've been in alt-process land lately, the 16x20 or 20x24 negative gives me a few options as to print size. Building isn't for everybody, but if you enjoy it, why not go for it?

erie

Falkenberg · Dec 22, 2007

I would like to see what an adapter for wet plate work looks like. Please post some pictures of a plate holder/adpater or what it is called. In my planning of how my perfect camera should be, I want to take every option into consideration. I want to make it as modular as possible.

mark · Dec 22, 2007

I have no problem with someone building their own camera. Even the tried and true folks had to start somewhere. In fact I am a bit surprised about people's assumption that the OP will be cobbling together a shoe box. As photographers we are craftsman and as people who use BW you folks should immediately understand the desire to create something from beginning to end. I have no idea what level of wood craftsman the OP is but it seems clear that he knows what he is getting into.

It has been a dream of mine, for some time now, to design and build a camera that fits my needs.

Falkenberg · Dec 22, 2007

Please can we get this thread back on track. Please post pictures and comments on the details that You love the most on Your cameras.

Colin Graham · Dec 23, 2007

It seems like the singular great feature of a camera this size would be weight. Everything else is a distant second. I could probably use a 20x24 Ebony once...50lb? That's almost sack of concrete mix. My hat's off. I've toyed with the idea of torsion box construction to keep the weight down on a camera this size. The trick would be to keep the bulk down though. Hollow core doors are torsion boxes, if you ever lifted one it's amazing how light they are, essentially cardboard honeycombs laminated with very very thin plywood, but they're also notoriously easy to put hole in. In the end I'm glad I favor somewhat intimate contact prints, so I don't pursue it.

I think Ritter has performed a miracle of design with the carbon fiber 20x24, so it's certainly worth pursuing non traditional materials. Phillips' design looks like it could be parleyed into a 20x24 very easily. I'm not aware if he's ever made any camera bigger than 11x14.

Modularity seems straight forward enough- if the front and back are big enough you can adapt anything you want to them? Certainly no problem with any 20x24. But maybe you mean something else there.

Whenever I set out to make a camera for myself, the fun part is deciding what I want on it, and working out the problems in the design. I envy you this undertaking, seems there will be no shortage of interesting challenges. Good luck with the project.

Falkenberg · Dec 23, 2007

Weight is #1. The lens I have in mind is 3.4 kg with the shutter. The Glas for the groundglas is heavy too. There could probably be many small weightsavings, but then again at what cost.

The modularity I want is the ability to change the rear end of the back in order to allow for use with a Polaroid system or to do wet plate work or just a simple way to be prepared for what ever comes along that might be fun to try working with. I want to be open to all possibilities.

A Charles · Dec 23, 2007

Does the Ritter 20x24 use carbon fiber tubes or solid rods? I guess tubes. I would love to see a detailed close up photo or photos of the carbon fiber bed for the Ritter 20x24.

sanking · Dec 25, 2007

A Charles said:
Does the Ritter 20x24 use carbon fiber tubes or solid rods? I guess tubes. I would love to see a detailed close up photo or photos of the carbon fiber bed for the Ritter 20x24.

The RR 20X24 uses carbon fiber tubes. I would post a photo of the bed but am traveling and can not at this time. Even so, it is fairly complicated visually and I am not sure it would be easy to understand even with a good picture.

If I were to build a 20X24 camera again I would strongly consider the modular approach taken by Kerry Thalmann. I think the mono-rail design would be easier to assemble for most persons than a traditional wood bed design.

Sandy King

jgjbowen · Dec 25, 2007

A Charles said:
Does the Ritter 20x24 use carbon fiber tubes or solid rods? I guess tubes. I would love to see a detailed close up photo or photos of the carbon fiber bed for the Ritter 20x24.

Head over to www.circleofthesunproductions.com and check out the ULF video. This is the manual for Richard Ritter's ULF cameras. It costs $15 and includes shipping. On the video, Richard gives a detailed explanation about how he arrived at Carbon Fiber, vs Aircraft Aluminum for his rail system. There is also some video of just the rail system and a sequence where Richard stands on the rail system. This was Richard's test to be sure the rail system would be able to handle anything we users were likely to throw at it.

I own a RR 7x17 and just love it. It is much lighter than my Zone VI 8x10.

PS Welcome to the Large Format Forum... whoops, welcome to apug

Dave Wooten · Dec 25, 2007

sanking said:
The RR 20X24 uses carbon fiber tubes. I would post a photo of the bed but am traveling and can not at this time. Even so, it is fairly complicated visually and I am not sure it would be easy to understand even with a good picture.

If I were to build a 20X24 camera again I would strongly consider the modular approach taken by Kerry Thalmann. I think the mono-rail design would be easier to assemble for most persons than a traditional wood bed design.

Sandy King

Yes, it would be nice to be able to put the "bed" or rail part of the camera on the tripod and then attach the back etc.

barryjyoung · Jan 14, 2008

Falkenberg said:
I know very well that even a homemade camera will be expensive, but not as much as the prefabricated ones. And I get to have all my ideas made in the camera by making it myself.

You also get to make a choice. I am not being critical of any home builder, I think it is a wonderful thing. The choice is to have a rather amateurish unfinished looking result or to pay the price in research and development that the manufacturers have paid which could easily exceed the price of a manufactured camera. I know that I personally have gone through an immense change in thinking from when I joined with Seattle Camermakers to consider building home made cameras until now when I am finally making the final steps toward meaningful mass production.

Looking to lighten your design load by copying the best features of other cameras is a good idea. That lessens the R&D load considerably.

I wish you all the luck.

epatsellis · Jan 14, 2008

I would tend to agree with Barry, if you have the means, definately buy. Though appearance is pretty far down on my list of priorities when I build a camera, were I to refine the design, I'd probably spend more time on such things.

erie

Falkenberg · Jan 15, 2008

I want to build my own in order to learn more about the building process and what parts go into making a camera. I am looking at all the cameras I can, in order to get inspiration. I am fortunate enough that I have the heloo from the local techinal school where they teach design, toomaking and have all kinds of machinery like 3D printers, CNC cutters and a lot of other machinery that I dont know what is. I only have to pay for materials (at cost), all the work will be done within the teaching. Since I have no plans for going into any kind of manufacturing or mass production, I dont have to think about what other people think about my design too. I have started to blog about my projecthere: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

barryjyoung · Jan 17, 2008

Falkenberg said:
I dont have to think about what other people think about my design too.

I just read my answer from a few days ago. I apologize. My intention was not to sound snotty or discourage you in any way. Your project sounds like an interesting one. I meant that it is a tremendous amount of work having to make a part or assembly and then make it again and again until it functions the way that you, the designer want it to work. That is what I meant when I mentioned the looks of the camera not the cosmetics. Obviously the number one problem facing the home builder is functionality not appearance. The other angle to what I was saying was that the investment in R&D that will be required is huge for a one time construct. Please let me know if I can help you in your build.

20x24 what is Your favorite detail

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