I recently was loaned an old friends family Busch Pressman Model C kit.
It only had one film holder with it. So I order a couple of cheap ones from the ebay.
They dont fit the camera, despite being 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 holders. They are slightly too wide by a frustratingly small ammount.
Does this mean I am limited to wooden style film holders?
Are there names for the different types/sizes of film holders other than manufacturers?
Caliper says 78.1mm for wooden holder that fits, 78.8m for lisco regal plastic holder that doesnt fit.What is the spacing between the rails?
If you're going to use the borrowed camera a lot, look for an Adapt-A-Roll 620. These will feed from 120 spools, must take up on a 620 spool. Beware, they were made in sizes to fit 2x3, 3x4 and 4x5 cameras. Since you have a borrowed 2x3 Pressman, you want one that will fit a 2x3er. There are none currently on eBay.
Caliper says 78.1mm for wooden holder that fits, 78.8m for lisco regal plastic holder that doesnt fit.
The opening for holder on the back is basically also 78.8mm.View attachment 358426View attachment 358427
It is not the wideness alone that counts for the so called International Graflex 23 coupling system, nor the total thickness of the cassette.
The shape of the longitudinal side is at least as important. There should be a slot, a long grove actually, in it, and a screw in the middle.
In that slot the sliding thongs, the chrome tongs with the red handels shown in my previously shown photo, mus fit.
The linhof ones do not attach the same way, as these are made to be slid beween the spring held ground glass frame and the camera's backside, just like a traditional 4"x5" sheet film holder.
In the photos I attach now, you can see the shape of the camera side of a roll film cassette {a WISTA 6x9, which has the same pattern as the Horseman, the Graflex 23 and the Linhof Rollex (as used on the ALPA camera's)}.
In the first photo, if you look closely, you can see that grove with the chrome screw halfway of it, which is meant to position the cassette in the camera's 6x9 frame.
In the second photo you can see the inner side of the grove with the screws.
In the third photo you can see the traces made by the thongs when slid in that grove (a Wista cassette).
The thickness of the outer, camera oriented, side and the border of the grove is around 4 mm, the deepness of that grove is about the same.
The roll film- and the sheet film cassette must always be positioned with the dark slide upside, or on the right side when used horizontally.
This coupling system is nowadays still used on the still made Silvestri-, the ALPA SWISS- and the Alvandi cameras, and perhaps others too.
I think, but I am not certain, that the sheet- and cut film cassettes for the 6x9 Mamiya Press have the right shape/thickness.
By way of information: there is an considerabel difference between SHEET film (was plate film) and CUT film.
Sheets are 6,5 cm wide, and come as such (9 cm long) boxed by the manufacturers like ILFOR and MACO and, for the Imperial measure fans, is exactly 2,56"x3,54".
Cut film is 6 cm wide as it is a 9 cm long piece that has to be cut off a 120 roll film or a traditional sheet film (a quarter of a plate???) a not so easy DIY job I think.
BTW, I must admit never to have seen nor held these sheet-/cut film cassettes in real, what I tell here is purely based on literature, user manuals, pictures and the experience with roll film cassettes (which I use on my Silvestri, hence the photos).
PS: I am looking for a pair of SHEET film cassettes...
That's a nice but irrelevant explanation. The 2x3 Pressman -- I've had one -- has a spring back and accepts only insertion type film holders.
is the way a roll film back is attached on the Mamiya Press 23 compatible with with the International 23 Graflock?
I have both an RB67 and a Century Graphic -- the latter with a classic Graflok back including the pins on the ground glass panel to hold it under the spring arms on the back (pins equivalent to the chrome screws on the roll back you pictured above). I also have two Graphic type sheet film holders (no groove on the edge) and while they will work under the ground glass panel on the Century's Graflok back, there's no way to lock them into the Graflok sliders on the RB67, which has no provision for a ground glass panel (unneeded, since it's an SLR). One of the other fit issues, and the difference between Graphic and Gralfex backs/film holders (at least in 4x5) is whether there's a rib or groove on the film holder at the dark slide end; at least on 4x5 (where I've seen both types) the Graphic holders have a rib to fit a matching groove on the camera back; when held in place by the tension of a spring back, that keeps the holder in place against the end force of pulling the dark slide.
The Graflex film holders (again, in 4x5 where I have experience) have a groove instead of a rib, and also are grooved along both edges to fit the holding clamps of the Graflex type camera back (much like a Graflok, but dimensionally not the same and with only a single slider; the other metal clamp is fixed).
Presuming the same is true in 2x3, it looks like your Pressman has a Graphic type spring back, which ought to fit any Graphic type film holder and might (if the springs have enough travel) accept a 2x3 Grafmatic (as well as probably an Adapt-A-Roll Six-20 for 2x3 mount). It will NOT accept a Graflex type sheet film holder or Graflex compatible accessories (in 4x5 there are Grafmatics for both mounts!).
Directly to the question, it's been my understanding that accessories for the RB67's 2x3 Graflok mount will not fit a Press 23, and vice versa; the Press 23 expects roll holders that extend off both sides of the mount, while the RB67 Graflok has a blind end (on the photographer's left when the mount is in horizontal format). Photos from this eBay listing would confirm that -- the mount is closer to a Graflex type than the more modern Graflok on the RB67.
But mamiya 6x4.5 rb backs will fit on a graflex xl or baby graphic? Is a modification necessary?
I think I've actually seen a 6x9 adapta- roll that said busch on it.
Thank you for pointing out the irrelevance of my explanation, that's how I can learn permanently.
But I have a question for you: is the way a roll film back is attached on the Mamiya Press 23 compatible with with the International 23 Graflock?
For what it is worth, the American National Standard for the width of a 3x4 film holder is 78.17 to 78.97 mm. The Lisco holder is slightly within those limits. The Busch camera is not. This is assuming the calipers to be accurate. After a career in electronics, I trust the direct readout of traditional vernier calipers (despite human interpretation) more than the digital conversion of some easier-to-read digital calipers.Caliper says 78.1mm for wooden holder that fits, 78.8m for lisco regal plastic holder that doesnt fit.
The opening for holder on the back is basically also 78.8mm.View attachment 358426View attachment 358427
For what it is worth, the American National Standard for the width of a 3x4 film holder is 78.17 to 78.97 mm. The Lisco holder is slightly within those limits. The Busch camera is not. This is assuming the calipers to be accurate. After a career in electronics, I trust the direct readout of traditional vernier calipers (despite human interpretation) more than the digital conversion of some easier-to-read digital calipers.
I trust the direct readout of traditional vernier calipers (despite human interpretation) more than the digital conversion of some easier-to-read digital calipers.
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