1960s Japanese cameras, are they good?

runswithsizzers · Dec 1, 2022

kl122002 said:
I remember when I just started learning photography, I have been told old Japanese cameras are junks, probably made from recycled materials, including the lenses. I know German made cameras are great in1950s. But from histoty I can see the core shifted from Europe to Japan.
[...]

As an American teenager, I remember a fair amount of mockery towards Japanese-made goods in the early-to-mid 1960s. For example, in a cartoon appearing in "Mad Magazine", someone broke an anvil - and Alfred E. Neuman uses his magnifying glass to show us one of the broken parts is stamped "Made in Japan"

My first job in 1968-1974 was working in a bicycle shop. During that time I saw Japanese made bicycle parts slowly replace parts formerly made in France, England and Italy. One employee continued to badmouth Japanese components long after everyone else in the shop recognized the Japanese parts worked better / cost less than their European counterparts.

Certainly by 1972-74 we had seen enough very nice Japanese stereo gear and cameras brought back from Asia by returning Vietnam vets to have a high regard for Japanese made goods.

alanrockwood · Dec 1, 2022

faberryman said:
If you were going to buy a 35mm SLR made in the 1960s, what would you choose, other than a Leicaflex, that was not made in Japan? Alpa might be one. Any others?

Exakta, Pentacon(? not sure if they made a 35mm), Edixa, Praktica (maybe the same as Pentacon, I don't remember), Zeiss (e.g., Conterex and Contaflex), Kodak Retina Reflex, Praktina, Zenit.

There may be some overlaps in the above list, and I may have missed one or two brands.

GregY · Dec 1, 2022

alanrockwood said:
Exakta, Pentacon(? not sure if they made a 35mm), Edixa, Praktica (maybe the same as Pentacon, I don't remember), Zeiss (e.g., Conterex and Contaflex), Kodak Retina Reflex, Praktina, Zenit.

There may be some overlaps in the above list, and I may have missed one or two brands.

A nice list for sure.....but many of us chose the Japanese cameras.

Cholentpot · Dec 1, 2022

I have many cameras from that era. 90% of them are Japanese and of those the majority are still working. Same can't be said for American made or German made cameras that I own.

Sirius Glass · Dec 1, 2022

GregY said:
A nice list for sure.....but many of us chose the Japanese cameras.

Yes, people votes with their wallets for quality and price.

albada · Dec 1, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Honda motorcycles were good, but the first Honda car brought to the US, as Consumer Reports stated had a front bumper that could not stand up to a collision with anything more formidable than an overripe watermelon.

If only today's cars were that strong.

Like many here, I remember hearing about Japanese junk in the 60s. But just handle and dry-fire a Canon/Nikon/Minolta SLR from that era, and you'll know what the word "quality" means.

rcphoto · Dec 1, 2022

Never shot a Japanese lens I didn't like

Paul Howell · Dec 1, 2022

Both Alpa and Exakta ended their life as rebranded Japanese bodies. Alpa a rebranded Cosina 2000 and Exakta a rebranded Topcon RE, not the super, the next down in the line up, both shared the same mount. The rebranded Cosina used a M42 and later K mount. The Exakta rebranded Topcon was likely close to Exakta in build while the rebranded Cosina not was in the same universe in terms of quality as the Swiss Alpa, then the change in mount.

kl122002 · Dec 1, 2022

That's what I 've heard, just like this old topic from another forum mentioned:

"Made in Japan"-- what's the story?

OK, Classic Camera geeks. While they're squabbling over 20th century politics on the adjacent Zeiss thread, I have a question I've been meaning to ask for a while. First, a preamble: when I was a small kid in the late 1950s/early 1960s, "made in Japan" was, of course, synonymous with 'crap'. So t...

www.photo.net

xkaes · Dec 1, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Honda motorcycles were good, but the first Honda car brought to the US, as Consumer Reports stated had a front bumper that could not stand up to a collision with anything more formidable than an overripe watermelon.

I somehow have avoided running into anything with my 1976 Honda Civic -- which I bought new and still drive. I'm getting close to 500,000 miles on the original engine -- and it still gets 45 MPG. I also still have my 1977 Suzuki GS550 motorcycle. It also runs like new -- but only gets 60 MPG. Not bad for cheap Japanese junk.

GRHazelton · Dec 1, 2022

DGS said:
I grew up in the 60s and 70s, and I never heard or thought of Japanese cameras as "junk". In fact, the first camera I listed after and bought with my own money was a Canon FTbn, which I still own. I own dozens of Japanese cameras, including many Canon rangefinders, Minolta rangefinders and TLRs (the superb Autocord), Yashicas, Nikons, Pentaxes, etc. And nothing, but nothing, outclassed my two Topcon RE Super cameras. The Japanese were the great innovators during this period, with metering systems in particular, and lens design.

I also own an Autocord, excellent camera. My Konica IIIa is a wonderful user camera, introduced about 1958. In addition to an innovative left hand front film advance, it also has an excellent Hexanon 6 element f1.8 lens, and a 1 to 1 viewfinder, parallax corrected, and correction for the diminishing coverage as the lens is focused closer! Leica has yet to provide that information in its rangefinders. Add superb build quality which seems as if the camera is hewn from a solid block of metal and the result is a marvelous camera. See what Dante Stella says:

Konica IIIa and IIIM rangefinder cameras

Paul Howell · Dec 1, 2022

xkaes said:
I somehow have avoided running into anything with my 1976 Honda Civic -- which I bought new and still drive. I'm getting close to 500,000 miles on the original engine -- and it still gets 45 MPG. I also still have my 1977 Suzuki GS550 motorcycle. It also runs like new -- but only gets 60 MPG. Not bad for cheap Japanese junk.

A 40 year car in Colorado, considering the salt in the winter, that is remarkable.

4season · Dec 1, 2022

From 1950-71, the Japanese Yen - USD exchange rate was fixed at 360 Yen to 1 USD, and that surely didn't hurt sales of Japanese goods in the USA.

3rd party lenses could be a mixed bag, probably because the emphasis was on price rather than performance.

Sirius Glass · Dec 1, 2022

4season said:
From 1950-71, the Japanese Yen - USD exchange rate was fixed at 360 Yen to 1 USD, and that surely didn't hurt sales of Japanese goods in the USA.

3rd party lenses could be a mixed bag, probably because the emphasis was on price rather than performance.

I had a MInolta STR100 with the Rokkor f/2.8 21mm lens, the Rokkor 28mm lens and the Rokkor 50mm lens. I bought a Vivitar 85mm to 205mm pre Series I lens and its contrast was poor compared to the Rokkor lenses.

George Mann · Dec 2, 2022

Paul Howell said:
A 40 year car in Colorado, considering the salt in the winter, that is remarkable.

We don't use regular salt on our roads here. The chemical compound we use is non-corrosive.

xkaes · Dec 2, 2022

Paul Howell said:
A 40 year car in Colorado, considering the salt in the winter, that is remarkable.

You obviously don't know much about the use of salt on Colorado roads.

Paul Howell · Dec 2, 2022

Turns that is true, made an unfounded assumption.

Fujicaman1957 · Dec 31, 2022

Paul Howell said:
Both Alpa and Exakta ended their life as rebranded Japanese bodies. Alpa a rebranded Cosina 2000 and Exakta a rebranded Topcon RE, not the super, the next down in the line up, both shared the same mount. The rebranded Cosina used a M42 and later K mount. The Exakta rebranded Topcon was likely close to Exakta in build while the rebranded Cosina not was in the same universe in terms of quality as the Swiss Alpa, then the change in mount.

The Alpa was a rebadged Chinon Memotron-not a Cosina.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 31, 2022

kl122002 said:
I remember when I just started learning photography, I have been told old Japanese cameras are junks, probably made from recycled materials, including the lenses. I know German made cameras are great in1950s. But from histoty I can see the core shifted from Europe to Japan.

Now it is 2022(moving to 2023) I have seen many reviews of different vintage japanese cameras. And it's quite clear that those vintage JP cameras are actually not that bad, and some even have stylish look that other Europe brands never given. Some models, like Minolta V2 /V3, are having 1/2000 and 1/3000 (both compensated with smaller aperture size) as shutter speed, so as Minolta AL and Yashica Lynx 1000 having speed of 1/1000s top speed that never happened in Europe brands . Minolta Hi matic (original) is also the first RF camera brought to space?
And when Cds getting dominant in metering mechanics, Japanese RF has Programed AE function, like Konica Auto S series and Minolta Hi-matic 7 series.

So my question is, what made people believe 1960s japanese cameras are "bad"? Are they actually good products but just rejected by the market of that time?

My Nikormat from the 1970s has an intermittent meter. My Nikon N6006 from 1990 with a meter and electronic shutter works perfectly.

I'd try to get something not so old.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 31, 2022

runswithsizzers said:
As an American teenager, I remember a fair amount of mockery towards Japanese-made goods in the early-to-mid 1960s. For example, in a cartoon appearing in "Mad Magazine", someone broke an anvil - and Alfred E. Neuman uses his magnifying glass to show us one of the broken parts is stamped "Made in Japan"

My first job in 1968-1974 was working in a bicycle shop. During that time I saw Japanese made bicycle parts slowly replace parts formerly made in France, England and Italy. One employee continued to badmouth Japanese components long after everyone else in the shop recognized the Japanese parts worked better / cost less than their European counterparts.

Certainly by 1972-74 we had seen enough very nice Japanese stereo gear and cameras brought back from Asia by returning Vietnam vets to have a high regard for Japanese made goods.

I served in the USAF in Japan between 1965-1967 and bought a Nikon F Photomic T which was rated in the US as one of the best SLRs around at the time. I paid the equivalent of $190 there for it with a 50mm f/1,4 lens and leather case. A beaut! It was going for $490 here in the USA. Unfortunately, I lost it on a NYC subway after I was discharged so if anyone finds it, let me know if it still works.

I also bought a reel-to-reel Akai tape recorder in Japan while I was there. If I remember correctly, the Shinjuku area of Tokyo was the electronics place to buy stuff similar to Cortlandt Street ("Radio Row") in Manhattan before the WTC was built and they ripped it down. By the mid-1960s, Japanese stereo equipment was also known for its top quality like SLR's.

guangong · Dec 31, 2022

“Japanese cameras” is too broad a category. As with any bunch of products produced anywhere, there is a wide range from well made to so-so. For example, 35mm cameras from those made by Nikon to those by Petri. MF from Bronica to Kowa. For example, my 1964 Nikon F still going strong.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 31, 2022

guangong said:
“Japanese cameras” is too broad a category. As with any bunch of products produced anywhere, there is a wide range from well made to so-so. For example, 35mm cameras from those made by Nikon to those by Petri. MF from Bronica to Kowa. For example, my 1964 Nikon F still going strong.

My Nikomat FT3 seems to work fine except for the meter which seems intermittent. Does yours have a working meter?

Jim Jones · Jan 2, 2023

The Korean War brought photojournalists to Japan where they could buy cameras for hard use. Their favorable evaluations did much to make the better Japanese cameras sell well in America. The Japanese also produced some high quality tools and electronics. However, American companies pandering to cheapskate American buyers rarely made such items available in America. In my experience, early Japanese cars and motorcycles were disappointing. Toyota was perhaps the best of the lot. My Mazda Carol certainly wasn't.

wiltw · Jan 2, 2023

The perception of Japanese optics began to change in the 1950's... https://imaging.nikon.com/history/story/0036/index.htm
...that led to the adoption of the Nikon S 135 rangefinder body, in lieu of Leica or Contax. The quality of the Nikon RF bodies led to the adoption of the Nikon F SLR.

"In 1950, The New York Times commented that Nikon cameras and NIKKOR lenses used by photographers for Life magazine were superior to those made in Germany, significantly enhancing the reputations of both Nikon and NIKKOR far and wide."

"It was in 1950 when Mr. Jun Miki, also a photographer connected with LIFE magazine, was taking a snapshot of Mr. Duncan with the Nikkor 8.5cm he had borrowed from a friend, a photographer who happened to be visiting him. At that time, Mr. Duncan did not take any special interest in the lens, simply saying "Oh, Japanese Sonnar?" However, later his attitude changed quickly when he was shown the enlarged shot, and he started examining the photo with a magnifying glass. "It's great! Very sharp! Take me to the company at once!"

"Then, Mr. Duncan, Mr. Bristol, another FORTUNE magazine photographer, and Jun Miki visited the Ohi Plant of Nippon Kogaku K.K. (the current Nikon Corporation). At that time, Masao Nagaoka, then President of the company, led the three to the lens inspection room and showed them a comparison of performance between the camera lenses carried at that time by Mr. Duncan and Mr. Bristol and the NIKKOR lenses, through a projection inspection instrument. They saw the distinct performance of NIKKOR lenses with their own eyes and purchased NIKKOR lenses for Leica on the spot. Then, carrying the lenses with him, Mr. Duncan went to the battlefront of the Korean War, and subsequently his magnificent photographs taken with the NIKKOR lenses were published in LIFE magazine. This made the NIKKOR lens brand known around the world."

It did not hurt that stories like this added to the legend of quality of the Nikon F https://photodom.blog/this-tank-of-a-camera-actually-saved-a-mans-life/

"On this particular day, (Don McCullin) went out to document the severity of his environment with his trusty Nikon F in hand, not knowing that death was waiting for him around the bend. A Cambodian solider quietly sized him up, prepared his AK-47 and shot the man point blank. However, God had other plans, and McCullin’s camera stopped the bullet that would have been certain death for him. This solid camera ultimately saved his life"

GRHazelton · Jan 2, 2023

Jim Jones said:
The Korean War brought photojournalists to Japan where they could buy cameras for hard use. Their favorable evaluations did much to make the better Japanese cameras sell well in America. The Japanese also produced some high quality tools and electronics. However, American companies pandering to cheapskate American buyers rarely made such items available in America. In my experience, early Japanese cars and motorcycles were disappointing. Toyota was perhaps the best of the lot. My Mazda Carol certainly wasn't.

Interesting comments on Japanese cars. I owned a 1968 Datsun (Now known as Nissan) 510. It was directly comparable to a BMW 1600 in mechanical specifications, but not in finish! It was far superior to the Toyota Corona in specifications. I drove that 510 to about 130k miles with few repairs needed, other than batteries, tires, and such. The 510 achieved considerable success in the Trans-Am Series under 2500cc class, and in SCCA racing. BTW, Jay Leno's Garage is home to two 510s, both have been modified.

1960s Japanese cameras, are they good?

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