126 Camera w/35mm film (File/No File Indexing Pin?)

BobClack · Sep 30, 2014

It would seem that filing down the indexing pin on a 126 camera for 35mm use
would totally solve the "perforated vs unperforated vs unperforated w/ strateg-
ically punched holes" question.

One would just file down the pin, then use whatever 35mm film one wanted to.
(Of course, advancing the film a shot or two with a cap over the lens would be
needed).

Filing down the pin should be the line of least resistance on any 126 camera 35mm
film conversion, yet it seems many folks do work arounds on this. One web
instructable goes so far as to disassemble most of the camera.

Your index pin-filing experience?

Pro/con?

Am just wondering if there's something I'm missing here before the file comes out.

Thanks in advance.

gone · Sep 30, 2014

Interesting idea you have there Bob. Why not try it and let us know how it works out? Sounds like you'd only be out a little time, a roll of film, and some filing. If what you state turns out to be true, it would sure be great to use some of those old, nifty 126 cameras again w/ only a little work.

BobClack · Sep 30, 2014

momus said:
Interesting idea you have there Bob. Why not try it and let us know how it works out? Sounds like you'd only be out a little time, a roll of film, and some filing. If what you state turns out to be true, it would sure be great to use some of those old, nifty 126 cameras again w/ only a little work.

Thanks for the reply momus. Not my idea though. It can be found on the net. The thing is, it sounds like a perfect solution, yet others seem to be pursuing other solutions which sound more difficult (like building jigs to lay out unperforated 35mm film and punch in appropriately spaced holes).

Am just wondering if anyone here has had good success with index pin filing, or, was it a bomb for a reason that I haven't come across. Of course, there's also the issue that it might work on one camera but not another.

Not at the point of guinea pigging a camera yet. But may get there per your suggestion.

ciniframe · Sep 30, 2014

But on many cameras wasn't the pin necessary to either cock the shutter or free the shutter to fire? Not sure but at least on the simple cameras, Kodak X-15 and the like that seemed to be so. Or was it just to index where the film would stop? You would still have to have at least one 126 cartridge and some backing paper also.

AgX · Sep 30, 2014

ciniframe said:
But on many cameras wasn't the pin necessary to either cock the shutter or free the shutter to fire?

Yes.

BobClack · Sep 30, 2014

ciniframe said:
But on many cameras wasn't the pin necessary to either cock the shutter or free the shutter to fire? Not sure but at least on the simple cameras, Kodak X-15 and the like that seemed to be so. Or was it just to index where the film would stop? You would still have to have at least one 126 cartridge and some backing paper also.

Thanks ciniframe, I presently have an X-15 in front of me. No cartridge. I can throw the film advance completely, then fire the shutter. Then repeat both steps as many times as I wish. I'm assuming this is because the pin is hitting nothing but air with each film advance. If the pin were to hit an un-sprocketed piece of film, I don't believe the film would advance nor would the shutter cock.

So, by filing down the pin enough, it should always be "hitting air", and thus be able to advance, cock and fire to infinity.

I'm no techie. Where my question lies is is there any other mechanical reason (with the x-15 or any other 126 camera) why it should not work. I'm hoping someone who's been down this road might tell their experience.

MattKing · Sep 30, 2014

Any double exposure prevention will depend on the pin.

And any camera that does not rely on the numbers on the backing paper to keep track of which exposure you are on (Instamatic Reflex?) will need the pin.

Truzi · Sep 30, 2014

I opted to not file the pin. My father's Instamatic has the auto advance via a clockwork spring you wind, so without the pin, it will not stop advancing until the spring winds down or film is completely wound on the take-up spool.

I think I played with one 126 camera that required the pin be pushed in during advance to make something work right (I forget what it was). Initiating the advance pulled the pin back for only a moment, and if it didn't stay back for longer, the function didn't work.

ciniframe · Oct 1, 2014

This discussion made me wonder about availability of 126 film to reload. I see there is quite a bit on ebay for about $12 a cartridge and up. Is it hard to open the cartridges to reload? A related question, is there a source of unperforated 35mm film?

BobClack · Oct 1, 2014

Thanks to all for your replies.

From your different inputs, you've provided an answer here.

I think one just has to slog through it on a camera-by-camera basis. It seems there's a million stories in the naked city and a million ways to to approach different 126 cameras.

Example 1: I'm going to file the pin on the x-15 as I guess it wouldn't be the biggest loss if it doesn't work.

Example 2: On the Kodak Instamatic 500 with perforated 35mm film, one fires off a shot, then presses and holds down the shutter button while advancing the film approximately 2x. The shutter remains closed during this. Once you've thrown the advance arm 2x and let off on the shutter button, you're ready for your next shot. The shutter will work as normal. Repeat. Repeat again.

MattKing/APUGuser19, understood re spacing. This is addressed by adding slightly more throws on the advance arm (2, 2 1/4, 2 1/2, etc.) as one gets into the middle of the roll.

Truzi- yes, with auto advance that would smart!

Cine- The cartridges are not hard to reload. There are instructables on the net that cover it step by step. Youtube has videos on the process as well. Also, while many 126 films are rather expensive on Ebay, you will find some good buys with a little waiting. Just the other week I bought 3 Seattle Filmworks cartridges for under $10.00. The film is useless so it all worked out. And you could always cut down saved 120 paper for backing paper, though what many do is forego the backing paper, black tape the window, and glue a square of backing paper to the inside of the rear door to provide a stiff backing for the film.

Again, will shoot an "X-15 pin file roll" this coming week and post results.

And again, thanks folks for the replies.

Truzi · Oct 1, 2014

Another reason I haven't filed a pin on another Instamatic is because it was my grandmothers, and I'd prefer not to modify it.

The Kodak 126 cartridges are a bit tough to open, and a razor knife is very helpful. I've had better luck with Focal (Kmart's brand). "Famous Brand Triple Print" cartridges came apart the easiest for me - they unsnapped as I ran my fingernail around the seams.

BobClack · Oct 4, 2014

On Etsy right now are (6) 126 cartridges for $22.00 delivered. Some are Seattle Filmworks, so this would make sense only for reloading.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/205893...r?ref=br_feed_15&br_feed_tlp=vintage-category

(I have no relation to the seller!)

wblynch · Oct 6, 2014

If you file down the pin you will only get about 1/4 frame advanced before the film advance locks.

I have read of people that opened their camer and removed the pin and stopping latch altogether. Doing that would require some care in advancing the film the right distance. Also you won't get a shutter lock making unintentional Multi-exposures hard to prevent.

BobClack · Oct 7, 2014

Hi Bill,

Well, the pin has been filed and I did take some test shots with an original 126 cartridge (K-Mart Focal Color Negative). With the pin filed, sprocket holes/no sprocket holes wouldn't matter.

All went well, I think. There wasn't a problem with advancing. After I took my first "real" shot, I tightened my hand over the lens area and advanced 1 full stroke, then fired the shutter with my hand over the lens, then advanced again, etc., etc.

In all, I advanced 3 full strokes between "real" frames with my hand over the lens so I'm expecting large extra space between shots once the film is developed. (I can always use less strokes in future if this test is successful.)

Will be developing these in adonal tomorrow or Thursday and will post them here.

And if somehow I've made a mess of things, will post them just as well!

Bob

wblynch · Oct 7, 2014

Pretty cool Bob.

Of course we all want to see The pictures.

BobClack · Oct 8, 2014

Attached are photos from the Kodak X-15 (w/ filed indexing pin) test.

I'm happy with the results (aside from the 1979 film which hadn't aged very well, plus a scanner line courtesy of an Epson V600).

Camera:
Kodak Instamatic X-15 (w/filed indexing pin)

Film:
1979 K-Mart Focal Color Print (80ASA,12exp.)

Processing:
Adonal 1:100/semi-stand/68 degrees/1 hour
water rinse 1 min
Kodafix 5 min
wash 10 min
Ilfotol rinse 1:100 1 min

Scanner:
Epson V600

The pre-exposed frames are present as would be expected and there is a double exposure in the final shot. I believe I accidently tripped the shutter while advancing the film to it's end.

Well, the filing of the pin on the X-15 seems to have had only good results. However, the question remains whether or not pin-filing will work on other instamatics or on other 126s. Hmm. I'll file the pin on a 126 Hawkeye that's floating around here somewhere but it may be a while before I try this on my Kodak Instamatic 500!

Standard 35mm Tri-X next time with 2 1/2 advance strokes between shots.

In all, I'm looking forward to shooting the square format (with and without sprocket holes).

wblynch · Oct 8, 2014

Pretty cool. I had forgotten about the pre-flashed frame lines on most 126 film. Otherwise you did well not overlapping any shots.

Maybe you just need two strokes instead of three?

alienmeatsack · Oct 8, 2014

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but the pin in the Instamatic 500 also touches the 126 film cassette's open area along the edge to know what speed it is for the meter.

OP - Nice shots, looks like it worked!

Dan Fromm · Oct 8, 2014

Interesting exercise. When all's said and done, what does the Instamatic X-15 or Instamatic 500 do that's photographically useful and that a decent grade of fixed lens 35 mm camera can't do?

wblynch · Oct 8, 2014

It's all about doing something the corporations say we aren't "allowed" to do anymore.

Just because they don't value our demand for 126 film doesn't mean we can't have fun using these cameras.

And they still take better pictures than a phone!

BobClack · Oct 8, 2014

alienmeatsack said:
I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet but the pin in the Instamatic 500 also touches the 126 film cassette's open area along the edge to know what speed it is for the meter.

OP - Nice shots, looks like it worked!

Thanks and nice point! There is an instructable on the web that shows how to approach the KI 500.

Take shot- depress shutter button again and HOLD IT- advance 2 throws (shutter remains closed)- release shutter button- shutter button is set and will depress again for next shot.

Don't know if it works yet, or with perf/non-perf 35mm film, but will try this soon.

BobClack · Oct 8, 2014

Dan Fromm said:
Interesting exercise. When all's said and done, what does the Instamatic X-15 or Instamatic 500 do that's photographically useful and that a decent grade of fixed lens 35 mm camera can't do?

I like the idea of sprocket holes with the square format. Of course, one can do this with many cameras. My primary 35mm camera (Minolta SRT-201) won't give me square format without cropping and it won't give me sprocket holes at all.

By (hopefully) setting up the Kodak X-15 and the Kodak Instamatic 500 so they can use respooled 35mm film, I'll be able to get lo-fi shots and higher quality shots.

And, it's fun to tinker.

BobClack · Oct 8, 2014

wblynch said:
It's all about doing something the corporations say we aren't "allowed" to do anymore.

Just because they don't value our demand for 126 film doesn't mean we can't have fun using these cameras.

And they still take better pictures than a phone!

Amen!

Dr Croubie · Oct 8, 2014

Coincidentally, I just noticed a roll of unperforated 35mm Pro-S (actually two, same seller has another one).

Expired 23 years ago, no word on how it was stored (so assume room-temperature and possibly faded), you'll have to punch your own single-hole (but at least that means no filing), and find some cartridges and backing paper.
But isn't hacking things what this thread is about?

McFortner · Oct 8, 2014

I'm hoping that Ferrania will bring back some 126 film when they get started back up. They should have everything they need there to produce the cartridges if we are lucky.

126 Camera w/35mm film (File/No File Indexing Pin?)

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