120 Roll film adapter for Speed Graphic, spring back only?

eli griggs · Sep 12, 2024

As the title window says, I'm interested in a 120 Roll film adapter for Speed Graphic, spring back only, like one recently was posted, for interested conversation or, for sale.

My 4"x5".'Pre-Ani' beater only has a leaf spring back but the film holder I saw was fine for that type of accessory.

Any data, or advice is welcome, also, if one was made for a 3" x 4".Speed Graphic also pre-ani.

Godspeed and Cheers, as summer continues to wind down.

Eli

numerus · Sep 12, 2024

Hi Eli,

I like the roll film cassettes from Cambo/Calumet. They are available in the formats 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and 6x12. In my experience, they are the narrowest, so that they can be inserted into most cameras. For example, I use one on my Bossy Box (see other thread), into which only narrow cassettes can be inserted. The Linhof Rapid Rollex is also very narrow, but only available for Linhof's “ideal format” 56x72. There is a back from Wista, but it is too thick for most cameras and was mainly developed for the Wista Field wooden cameras, where the focusing screen can be lifted far away.

bdial · Sep 12, 2024

I have one made for “baby” Graphics that replaces the GG back and springs. I found it in antique store. I’ll hunt it up and post the particulars.
It’s not super well-made, but does the job.

Dan Fromm · Sep 12, 2024

4x5 size Adapt-A-Roll 620, also made in sizes for 3x4 and 2x3 so you shouldn't buy any old AAR. Will feed from a 120 spool, must take up on a 620 spool.

The gate is offset ~ 7 mm towards the back's insertion side, if you get one you'll have to mark the GG appropriately.

None on eBay just now but there's an advertisement: https://www.ebay.com/itm/154053179982

I use 2x3ers, have a 4x5er bought years ago to fit the Calumet CC-401 I intended to use as the basis for a Baby Bertha.

Donald Qualls · Sep 12, 2024

One thing to watch with these AAR 620 -- the roller that drives the "clicker" that lets you advance without a red window can lose its rubber coating. Mine came to me that way and I got overlapping frames on my first roll with it. If you get one like this, though, and it otherwise works, get a roll of "friction tape" and wrap two layers onto the steel roller. This tape will grip the backing well enough to drive the clicker, but won't stick permanently to the paper if you leave a roll in for a few weeks.

abruzzi · Sep 12, 2024

Huh, on the AARs I have, the key roller is the one at the end where the film makes a 180 degree turn back through the film gate. In mine they're not rubber coated (maybe that was gone a long time ago?) just a metal rod with a rough texture. I thought that was the way they were made. OTOH, that rod goesn't have enough grip to turn with the film if you try running a backing paper with no film, it doen't ratchet (i.e. a test run and you don't want to waste a roll of film.)

The AARs have a few quirks, most have been mentioned already:

• The gate isn't centered
• Requires a 620 takeup spool
• the takeup spool winds backwards so it spools the film emulsion out. That may make it hard glue the paper in place when the role is done. You'll need to unwindthe film a little, tear off the tape and restick it on the outside. or you can just bring a small roll of tape.
• the clicky frame advance counter can be a bit tricky until you get used to advancing the film.

On the plus side they work with pretty much any camera that takes standard 4x5 double sided film holders (or 3x4 or 6x9/2x3). There are some others that do the slide in like a film holder approach, but the AAR is much easier to find, and much less expensive, if you can deal with the quirks.

I believe there we both Sinar and Linhof slide in roll film holders, but I forget the names (I think Linhof was Rapid Rollex, but I could be wrong).

Dan Fromm · Sep 12, 2024

abruzzi said:
I believe there we both Sinar and Linhof slide in roll film holders, but I forget the names (I think Linhof was Rapid Rollex, but I could be wrong).

Sinar: Panorama, 2 models, 6x9 and 6x12, fixed gates; Vario and Zoom, several versions, adjustable gates. If I measured correctly, 24 mm thick.

The Super Rollex is 6x7.

Toyo also makes insertion type roll holders. 6x7 and 6x9. I don't know how thick they are.

numerus · Sep 12, 2024

The Cambo holder is 24 mm thick, too.

Philippe-Georges · Sep 12, 2024

Perhaps this?

Donald Qualls · Sep 12, 2024

abruzzi said:
In mine they're not rubber coated (maybe that was gone a long time ago?) just a metal rod with a rough texture. I thought that was the way they were made. OTOH, that rod goesn't have enough grip to turn with the film if you try running a backing paper with no film, it doen't ratchet (i.e. a test run and you don't want to waste a roll of film.)

The combination of those factors was what led me to believe there had been a (molded on) rubber cover that was missing (likely oxidized to breakage in the 50+ years between when mine was made and when I obtained it, and any fragments removed when the seller cleaned the unit for eBay photographs). The texturing of the rod was the wrong shape to grip the backing paper, and either too-small diameter caused a short advance when counting clicks (the only way to advance a set distance) (slippage would have caused excess advance or inconsistent framing).

I could be wrong; that texture might have gripped well enough to give accurate framing when backing paper had some tooth, but it certainly didn't when I got my AAR in the early 2000s, and likely less so now. Two layers of friction tape solved the problem for me.

abruzzi · Sep 12, 2024

Donald Qualls said:
The combination of those factors was what led me to believe there had been a (molded on) rubber cover that was missing (likely oxidized to breakage in the 50+ years between when mine was made and when I obtained it, and any fragments removed when the seller cleaned the unit for eBay photographs). The texturing of the rod was the wrong shape to grip the backing paper, and either too-small diameter caused a short advance when counting clicks (the only way to advance a set distance) (slippage would have caused excess advance or inconsistent framing).

I could be wrong; that texture might have gripped well enough to give accurate framing when backing paper had some tooth, but it certainly didn't when I got my AAR in the early 2000s, and likely less so now. Two layers of friction tape solved the problem for me.

interesting, I never considered that. In the end, I just settled on graflok backs, and the camera that I had that didn't have graflok, I just don't shoot roll film in. The film advance of the AAR is too finiky for me (figuring out which mark on the knob to stop at.

eli griggs · Sep 13, 2024

Will Hockey stick taped do?

Donald Qualls said:
One thing to watch with these AAR 620 -- the roller that drives the "clicker" that lets you advance without a red window can lose its rubber coating. Mine came to me that way and I got overlapping frames on my first roll with it. If you get one like this, though, and it otherwise works, get a roll of "friction tape" and wrap two layers onto the steel roller. This tape will grip the backing well enough to drive the clicker, but won't stick permanently to the paper if you leave a roll in for a few weeks.

Donald Qualls · Sep 13, 2024

eli griggs said:
Will Hockey stick taped do?

I believe they are the same stuff, but I can't say for certain as I didn't grow up in hockey country and have never taped a hockey stick.

Donald Qualls · Sep 13, 2024

abruzzi said:
In the end, I just settled on graflok backs, and the camera that I had that didn't have graflok, I just don't shoot roll film in. The film advance of the AAR is too finiky for me (figuring out which mark on the knob to stop at.

The beauty of the AAR is that it will work on a Graflok or Graphic back (pretty much anything that will accept a common double dark slide film holder, and could easily be modified to work with a Graflex back), just by slipping under the focusing panel. The ugly is that it needs 620 takeup spools. I keep wondering if I can convert the takeup on mine to use 120 (it'll feed from 120 or at least trimmed 120 as built).

abruzzi · Sep 13, 2024

Donald Qualls said:
The beauty of the AAR is that it will work on a Graflok or Graphic back (pretty much anything that will accept a common double dark slide film holder, and could easily be modified to work with a Graflex back), just by slipping under the focusing panel. The ugly is that it needs 620 takeup spools. I keep wondering if I can convert the takeup on mine to use 120 (it'll feed from 120 or at least trimmed 120 as built).

Yeah, I know that, but the 3 I have are just infinitely finicky and not worth the time of day. So they sit in the bottom of a box of unused items.

Donald Qualls · Sep 13, 2024

Seems like one way to deal with them. FWIW, I don't have a lot of use for 6x9 roll film in a 4x5 camera anyway (much more prone to use Grafmatics); these would be much more useful in 2x3 size, but the only 2x3 camera I have with ground glass back is a Century Graphic and my RB67 and and Graflex 22, 23, and RH10/RH20 backs fit perfectly on its 2x3 Graflok mount -- and are easier to load and use.

Dan Fromm · Sep 13, 2024

abruzzi said:
Yeah, I know that, but the 3 I have are just infinitely finicky and not worth the time of day. So they sit in the bottom of a box of unused items.

They have to be worked and lubricated -- I use graphite powder -- and worked some more. Mine are trouble free.

mgb74 · Sep 13, 2024

eli griggs said:
As the title window says, I'm interested in a 120 Roll film adapter for Speed Graphic, spring back only, like one recently was posted, for interested conversation or, for sale.

My 4"x5".'Pre-Ani' beater only has a leaf spring back but the film holder I saw was fine for that type of accessory.

Any data, or advice is welcome, also, if one was made for a 3" x 4".Speed Graphic also pre-ani.

Godspeed and Cheers, as summer continues to wind down.

Eli

I have a Calumet C2. Like this one (though almost, but not quite as good, cosmetic condition). Let me know if interested.

reddesert · Sep 13, 2024

The Calumet / Cambo C2 back is a more modern slide-in roll holder that takes 120 spools (if a design that dates to the 1960s or so can be called modern). But it only comes in 4x5 size, so if you are trying to fit a 2x3 or 3x4 spring-back camera, the Adapt-a-roll is the option.

mgb74 · Sep 13, 2024

reddesert said:
The Calumet / Cambo C2 back is a more modern slide-in roll holder that takes 120 spools (if a design that dates to the 1960s or so can be called modern). But it only comes in 4x5 size, so if you are trying to fit a 2x3 or 3x4 spring-back camera, the Adapt-a-roll is the option.

The OP said:
My 4"x5".'Pre-Ani' beater only has a leaf spring back but the film holder I saw was fine for that type of accessory.
Any data, or advice is welcome, also, if one was made for a 3" x 4".Speed Graphic also pre-ani.

So I interpreted that to mean he was looking for a 4x5 and a 3x4.

eli griggs · Sep 13, 2024

mgb74 said:
The OP said:
My 4"x5".'Pre-Ani' beater only has a leaf spring back but the film holder I saw was fine for that type of accessory.
Any data, or advice is welcome, also, if one was made for a 3" x 4".Speed Graphic also pre-ani.

So I interpreted that to mean he was looking for a 4x5 and a 3x4.

That's correct.

120 Roll film adapter for Speed Graphic, spring back only?

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