120 box camera vs Diana/Holga/Lomo

George Mann · Sep 10, 2021

Would a 120 box camera (+/- 1920's) with a good clean leans give me better photos than these modern toys?

4season · Sep 10, 2021

George Mann said:
Would a 120 box camera (+/- 1920's) with a good clean leans give me better photos than these modern toys?

Lomo LCA 120 is a semi-serious camera with coated 4-element lens which puts it in another league from the others.

But box camera vs Holga or Diana is worth a shot, particularly since many box cameras are 6x9, not 6x6.

Nicholas Lindan · Sep 10, 2021

The 120 box camera should produce sharper photos. You may need to take the camera apart and clean any crud from the shutter and give the lens a good cleaning. Getting to the lens on the old Kodaks with the shutter before the lens can be a hassle.

The best of the old box cameras are the Zeiss Tengor line.

Vaughn · Sep 10, 2021

No, that's up to the user of the tool and what s/he can do with it. I have a few 120 box cameras and an old Diana camera. I have not played with with them for awhile.

Diana Camera, Tech pan, Platinum/palladium print

xya · Sep 10, 2021

IMHO a diana + for cheap is a much better choice. 4 apertures and interchangeable lenses.

George Mann · Sep 10, 2021

Nicholas Lindan said:
Getting to the lens on the old Kodaks with the shutter before the lens can be a hassle.

I think that the Kodak no2's I am looking at have a bulb setting.

removed account4 · Sep 10, 2021

Vaughn said:
No, that's up to the user of the tool and what s/he can do with it.

+1

TheFlyingCamera · Sep 10, 2021

George Mann said:
Would a 120 box camera (+/- 1920's) with a good clean leans give me better photos than these modern toys?

Sharper? Possibly. Better? As others have said, that's a question of proper use of the tool and what you're looking to accomplish with it rather than the tool itself. If I'm looking to drive nails, a $2 hammer is still probably better than a $20 screwdriver.

George Mann · Sep 10, 2021

Thanks for your input. You can only get much from a Meniscus lens, but the images I have seen with a properly cleaned and polished example looks rather good considering.

My next camera will probably be a Fujica 6 if I can find a good one at a reasonable price.

But as I find these box cameras to have a certain, irresistible lure, I will no dought have to pick one up.

Bazza D · Sep 10, 2021

It depends on how you are going to use it. In order to get a better photo with the box camera you will want to set it down. The Holgas and Dianas will be much better for walking around with. I just got an Ansco 116 box camera and enjoy using it. I say they are similar in results but I do enjoy the box camera a bit more.

removed account4 · Sep 10, 2021

George Mann said:
You can only get much from a Meniscus lens, but the images I have seen with a properly cleaned and polished example looks rather good considering

Don't underestimate a Wollaston Meniscus Lens.. many box cameras had a choke that made the aperture about f10 and some had
a 2nd fstop that was even smaller f16<?> some had a portrait attachment others had a yellow filter. the trick is to learn how to use them, they are not as easy to use as a modern 35 or 120 camera because it takes effort and knowing the light and how the lens renders the light and knowing the shutter speed ... personally I'd rather use box cameras than anything else, they free me up to compose and enjoy the act of photography.

good luck!
John

Pioneer · Sep 10, 2021

I prefer my Kodak Brownie to my Holga. The meniscus lens produces some beautiful results in the right light. But working with the Brownie is different.

Arthurwg · Sep 11, 2021

If you want to compete with a Holga or Diana, the box camera would be better if the lens didn't have a "good clean lens."

gone · Sep 11, 2021

My Holga made photos that were sharp-enough (quite sharp in the center), w/ lots of vignetting, but it was pretty unpredictable from one exposure to the next.The Diana Stellar had a better lens, and it's photos were more like something you'd get from a 'real' camera. I never bought a Brownie because they're not bike or strap friendly. Here's a pic from the Diana.

MattKing · Sep 12, 2021

momus said:
I never bought a Brownie because they're not bike or strap friendly.

My Brownie Starmite would have resented this remark!

rknewcomb · Dec 14, 2021

Vaughn said:
No, that's up to the user of the tool and what s/he can do with it.

I very much agree with this!

RalphLambrecht · Dec 14, 2021

George Mann said:
Would a 120 box camera (+/- 1920's) with a good clean leans give me better photos than these modern toys?

my box camera is from my grandma and from around 1923. It's single-element lens make a pretty crappy picture. Henceforth, I converted it to a pinhole camera, which gives me about the same image quality it was a fun project. I'm sure it's simple and robust construction we'll make it last another hundred years!

Agulliver · Jan 2, 2022

I've taken some nice pictures with meniscus lens box cameras. The caveat is that the centre of the image is usually quite acceptably sharp, but the edges are not. If you work with this limitation in mind you can get some decent images.

I don't have a Holga and my Diana clone (Sinomax) is with someone else....but I do have these pics to share from box cameras. A mix of circa 1917 Kodak Brownie 2a (I think) and circa 1950 Agfa Synchro Box. They're both capable of decent pictures, given their limitations. The train, seaside and statue are from the Kodak. The rest are from the Agfa.

Donald Qualls · Jan 2, 2022

The other thing to keep in mind with most medium format box cameras is the best focus is between 6 and 10 feet -- hyperfocal from about 4 feet to infinity, but that's calculated for contact prints in many/most cases...

Ansco Shur-Shot Jr. J&C Pro 100, HC-110 Dilution G.

jtk · Jan 2, 2022

Vaughn said:
No, that's up to the user of the tool and what s/he can do with it. I have a few 120 box cameras and an old Diana camera. I have not played with with them for awhile.

Diana Camera, Tech pan, Platinum/palladium print

Very fine! I'd love to see the print.

Vaughn · Jan 2, 2022

Thanks -- I have also printed the negative with the carbon process. Much better control of the higher values (in other words, I can see more in Calder's face -- the lighter one).

bluechromis · Jan 3, 2022

I have a Kodak Hawkeye Brownie Flash, a Kodak Cresta II and a Holga GCFN. After a certain point, the majority of Kodak medium format cameras were made for 120 film. With the Brownie Flash, there is a kluge to use 120. But the Cresta is nice because it natively takes 120. The Cresta also has built-in yellow and close-up filters The Kodaks take push-on filter adapters that can be set up to take regular screw-on filters. With the Holga I'll have to glue on a step-up ring so it can take filters. The Holga has some ability to adjust focus and mine has two apertures. It vignettes on the wider aperture. Some Holgas have hotshoes. The Holga has a plate to change to 645 format, though I am not sure how the works with the viewfinder. The Brownie requires a hack to use with strobes. Because the Holga has light leaks, I have to tape over the seam between the back and the body. To change film I have to peel off the tape and then press it back on, not a quick process. While the Holga has a tripod mount the Kodaks lack them. Before I flipped the lenses, I was surprised at how sharp were the Kodak lenses. The Holga lens gives a certain starkness in some images that can be nice. From the info. I have seen the Kodaks' shutter is about 1/30 sec and f/13 for Brownie and f/11 for Cresta. The Holga is 1/100 sec. and apertures of around 11 and 13. This can be a significant difference. The is more chance of motion blur with Brownies and Cresta. I can use slower film in the Brownies. The Brownie does not have a neck strap though it may have a case that does.

Donald Qualls · Jan 4, 2022

bluechromis said:
The Brownie does not have a neck strap though it may have a case that does.

I got my first Brownie Hawkeye Flash before 1970, and I'm pretty confident there was never a case for that camera. It was sold in a market that didn't expect a carrying strap; the handle on the top was fine.

Timmyjoe · Jan 4, 2022

In 1942 my Mom bought a Brownie Reflex Synchro which she used up until the early 1960's when my Dad bought her an early Polaroid camera. After she died my kid brother dug the camera out and I refurbished it (basically cleaning the lens). Still takes decent pictures on 127 film (so a bit smaller than the 120 the Holga & Diana use).

Best,
-Tim

ic-racer · Jan 4, 2022

George Mann said:
Would a 120 box camera (+/- 1920's) with a good clean leans give me better photos than these modern toys?

Not if you consider photography by Nancy Rexroth 'better photos.'

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