120-135 lens that vignettes on 4x5?

Ben Altman · Dec 15, 2012

Hi All,

I'm looking for suggestions for a lens to use on 4x5, in the 120-135mm range, that would give a nice fall-off at the edges, preferably on the short dimension of the film. Something like the soft edges you get on a full 6x6 Holga frame, which goes close to black in the corners with a nice gradation. So I'd crop the 4x5 to 4x4. Failing that, something that fades out on the long dimension could work.

Shorter focal lengths do this, but I'm having trouble figuring out the right thing to look for at this length.

I'd prefer to find something lightweight in a shutter. Compur with many-blade iris would be good...

Thanks for any ideas!

Ben

jamie young · Dec 15, 2012

Hi Ben
A short petzval lantern slide lense would works well, though finding one in a shutter is unlikely. You could use a speed graphic with it. or maybe a short wollensak verito @around f4

Brian Legge · Dec 15, 2012

It seems like the right stepdown filter on any lens would be another way to achieve this.

Andrew Moxom · Dec 15, 2012

Kodak Ektar 127mm will vignette slightly on 4x5 and have virtually no movements

tony lockerbie · Dec 15, 2012

Just the opposite to what most people are trying to achieve! I reckon any lens that is deigned for 6x9, like 100 to 105mm and preferably old and uncoated to give a more Holgeresque look. A lot of modern 6x9 lenses such as the Sironars or Symmars will usually just cover the 5x4 format...damn them!

ic-racer · Dec 15, 2012

Modern 6x9 lenses (like all the Horseman lenses) will have a sharp cutoff at the edge, probably not what you want. I occasionally use the Horseman 75mm on 4x5. The image is sharp right up the the edge of the image circle and it cuts off abruptly.

My 'secret' for getting an image like you describe is to use the accessory Yashica wide angle viewing lens as the taking lens on a TLR.

benveniste · Dec 15, 2012

Depending on the distance you plan to shoot at and the aperture, the Nikon Macro 120mm f/5.6 Nikkor-AM(ED) will vignette "nicely," but mine came in a Copal-0 shutter.

ic-racer · Dec 15, 2012

Not all old brass lenses give a "Holga" effect. This is an Anthony lens from 1890s wide open: It is sharp right up to the edge and cuts off rather abruptly like a modern lens.

removed account4 · Dec 15, 2012

get a crappy folder or box camera, and harvest the lens from it.
you might get lucky and get a shutter too

Ben Altman · Dec 15, 2012

Thanks everyone! Will try a couple of folder lenses I have and the mechanical vignette option to see how they look. I'll be using this at 4-5 feet subject distance, which makes it harder to find the right thing...

StoneNYC · Dec 15, 2012

ic-racer said:
Not all old brass lenses give a "Holga" effect. This is an Anthony lens from 1890s wide open: It is sharp right up to the edge and cuts off rather abruptly like a modern lens.

Sorry to interject, gorgeous shot!

~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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Dan Fromm · Dec 15, 2012

You're not going to get a lot of optical vignetting (cos^4 falloff) from a 120 mm lens on 4x5. You'll probably get substantial image degradation towards the corners with a lens around 120 mm made for a 6x6 or 6x7 camera.

Your best best at 4-5 feet would be a shorter lens made for a 6x6 camera. And it won't give you exactly what you want.

pen s · Dec 16, 2012

How about two series 5 or series 6 close up lenses. If mounted concave to concave a plus 3 and a plus 4 would be a plus 7, about 143mm. Put a thin brass stop inside, about a 17 mm hole should give you f8.5 with plenty of fall off. Don't know what to do about a shutter.

pgomena · Dec 16, 2012

How about an 80mm enlarging lens?

Peter Gomena

Denis P. · Dec 16, 2012

Ben,

Your best bet might be either:

1) a lens designed for smaller format (6x6 cm or 2x3 in), e.g. lenses for 2x3 Speed Graphics (or Century Graphics), like the 101/4.5 Ektar or Optar, or similar, or a lens scavenged from a medium format (6x6 or 6x9) folder. However, in this case you're limited to focal lengths ranging from about 80mm (6x6 format) to about 105mm (2x3 format).

2) some DIY lens hacking - mix and match various lens cells in an existing shutter - or use close-up (diopter) lenses, as already mentioned. You could try one of the lenses mentioned under 1) above, and try removing/swapping lens elements with other lenses, close-up diopters, etc.

Most of the lenses in shutter in the focal lengths you mention (120-135mm) will cover 4x5 without serious vignetting - at least not as pronounced as in a Holga. The Kodak Ektar 127 that Andrew mentioned does not really vignette on 4x5: well, it actually does when you try movements, but only on the side which ran out of coverage (not what you want).

Now that I think of it, there might be a third solution: you could try 135mm lens from a Mamiya TLR, but I'm not sure about its coverage and vignette characteristics (if any) when used on 4x5 format.

If you're willing to forego the shutter, your options increase with many older barrel lenses you might try.

grahamp · Dec 16, 2012

I have actually mounted the Agfa Solinar 105mm from my Record III on a 5x4. This is a tessar-type lens and normal for 6x9cm. It illuminates 5x4, but gets soft outside of the intended 6x9 frame. It does not vignette at the corners - you would have to put it on a 5x7 to see the corners really darken. The Synchor-Compur shutter has the close to circular iris mentioned originally, though the lens also mounts in a standard Copal 0 shutter.

I suspect that any lens designed as 'normal' i.e. a focal length close to the diagonal of the format won't work for corner vignetting at the focal lengths you want. You probably need a projection lens of some sort.

Ben Altman · Dec 16, 2012

Grabbed a cheap 135 Mamiya TLR lens on eBay tonight - we'll see what that does in a few days. I have the 127/4.7 Ektar and that does indeed cover 4x5, at least any closer than infinity. Checked a 101 Raptar which seems to cover too well also. Will test other options as time allows. Even 6x9 lenses would fill the narrow dimension of the 4x5 frame though, I think.

Thanks for suggestions.

Ben

Ben Altman · Dec 22, 2012

Update - the Mamiya 135 TLR lens comes close to what I want if I use it wide open. A bit more coverage than I want but it does fall off towards the sides. Corners are dark but a bit more abrupt than I'd like. Not bad, though. May try some mechanical vignetting too. It's hard to get something as bad as a Holga lens... Thanks Denis for the suggestion.

Ben

120-135 lens that vignettes on 4x5?

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