10x20 inch ULF???

Kimberly Anderson · May 29, 2006

So after playing around with the 12x20 for a month now and becoming familiar with how it 'feels'...I am kind of deciding that I like a little bit wider format, something like the 7x17. I like the negative width of the 12x20, just not the height. I looked at some 8x20 work online, and even saw an 8x20 print from AJ Meek that a friend of mine has...but it seems even more horizontal than the 7x17.

So, I'm wondering if there is a camera that's 10x20 inches? I know I can always trim down my 12x20's, but it seems that there is a risk to damaging the negative once they are processed. Is that risk minimal? Is anyone doing that for a wider format?

Is there such a camera like the 10x20? Just curious.

clay · May 29, 2006

I have cut 12x20's down to 8x20's without any problem. Another, slightly safer option is to cut a rubylith mask to 10x20 and mask your negative when you print it. Draw some sharpie lines on your ground glass and you are in business.

sanking · May 29, 2006

Michael Slade said:
So after playing around with the 12x20 for a month now and becoming familiar with how it 'feels'...I am kind of deciding that I like a little bit wider format, something like the 7x17. I like the negative width of the 12x20, just not the height. I looked at some 8x10 work online, and even saw an 8x20 print from AJ Meek that a friend of mine has...but it seems even more horizontal than the 7x17.

So, I'm wondering if there is a camera that's 10x20 inches? I know I can always trim down my 12x20's, but it seems that there is a risk to damaging the negative once they are processed. Is that risk minimal? Is anyone doing that for a wider format?

Is there such a camera like the 10x20? Just curious.

As far as I know there is no 10X20 camera. However, we made some 9 1/2" X 20" holders a couple of years ago for someone who planned to cut down 9 1/2" aerial film in rolls, so might be an option, depending on supply of this particualr film.

Another option is to get an 8X20 reducing back for the 12X20.

Sandy

Kimberly Anderson · May 29, 2006

I hadn't thought about the rubylith and Sharpee marks.

I'm really liking this Korona camera. I've had to do some 'upkeep' to it over the past week...but now it seems to be in pretty tip-top shape.

I am really liking that 10x20 format, and have looked at many of my images cropped to that ratio.

Kind of even looking for some advice about a 10x20 camera and holders custom made and trimming down film. Is that route going to be 'better' than trimming down 12x20 negs? Yeah, I know it depends on what 'better' means...just thinking out loud for a bit.

Kerik · May 29, 2006

I routinely trim the clear rebates off of my ULF film or 'crop' with a Rototrimmer. No big deal. I've never damaged a negative this way.

Kimberly Anderson · May 29, 2006

Kerik said:
I routinely trim the clear rebates off of my ULF film or 'crop' with a Rototrimmer. No big deal. I've never damaged a negative this way.

Alright...well, that answers that question.

I am guessing that getting the big Rototrimmer (I have the smaller version already, so I'm comfortable with it), is going to be a heck of a lot cheaper than getting a custom camera/holders made.

Any other thoughts?

sanking · May 29, 2006

Michael Slade said:
I hadn't thought about the rubylith and Sharpee marks.

I'm really liking this Korona camera. I've had to do some 'upkeep' to it over the past week...but now it seems to be in pretty tip-top shape.

I am really liking that 10x20 format, and have looked at many of my images cropped to that ratio.

Kind of even looking for some advice about a 10x20 camera and holders custom made and trimming down film. Is that route going to be 'better' than trimming down 12x20 negs? Yeah, I know it depends on what 'better' means...just thinking out loud for a bit.

Personally I would just mask down the 12X20 negatives. An adaptor back and 4-5 custom 10X20" holders will set you back $2000-$3000. You can buy a lot of rubylith masking tape for that money. And a very high quality trimmer to boot.

Sandy

Kimberly Anderson · May 29, 2006

Indeed.

As much as I'd looove to buy some 10x20 holders from you, I may have to buy some 12x20 holders instead.

Now to look for the camera...

Mike A · May 29, 2006

Michael Slade said:
I hadn't thought about the rubylith and Sharpee marks.

I'm really liking this Korona camera. I've had to do some 'upkeep' to it over the past week...but now it seems to be in pretty tip-top shape.

I am really liking that 10x20 format, and have looked at many of my images cropped to that ratio.

Kind of even looking for some advice about a 10x20 camera and holders custom made and trimming down film. Is that route going to be 'better' than trimming down 12x20 negs? Yeah, I know it depends on what 'better' means...just thinking out loud for a bit.

Michael, I use something simular to Rubylith http://www.base-line.com/masking.htm I forget who it was but one of the members recommended this product. I use it for masking 11x14 and it works great, I use the same mask multiple times.

Mike

scootermm · May 29, 2006

theres always the concept of just continuing to buy 12x20 film (imagine the money savings would be minimal over custom 10x20 film getting cut) then you could get an extra darkslide and create a "mask" to slide into the holder that would mask the 1" off the top and bottom, you could even black out your GG to only give you the 10x20 area. just an idea. Kinda like using an extra darkslide to shoot 4x10 on 8x10.

photomc · May 30, 2006

Following on Matt's comment, you could also make splitter board like we do for 8x10 except it would be for 10x20. That way the GG would only show you what would be in your image. Plan to make another one for the 8x10 so I can get 61/8x10 - a bit closer to 5x7 format. Plan to leave it in the camera if the format works like I want to, and take it out only for making 4x10's.

George Losse · May 30, 2006

Try inserting trimmed down mat board inside your 12x20 back to reduce the window opening for the back. It will block the light without major modifications to your camera. It will also allow you to see the image and compose it on the ground glass. And if after a while you don't like the 10x20 idea you can safely remove it and go back to the 12x20.

I tried this for some round images with my 8x10. Still playing with that idea.

Harrigan · May 30, 2006

I would do the same thing as George is recommending. Simply mask off the 12x20 back to 10x20 so when you look @ the gg you get 10x20 instead of 12x20. You can fairly easily do this with the black matt board and simply tape the stuff in there and if and when you are ready and absolutely sure this is the format you want, you can modify the back more permanently with wood. Maybe I'm speaking for myself being a wood worker but it shouldn't be that difficult to do with wood or a temporary matt board insert of some kind.

jimgalli · May 30, 2006

An up side to 10X20 if you converted your 12X20 holders to 10X20 is using Cirkut camera roll film. J&C sells it in 100 foot rolls. I cut it for 8X10 all the time. 20" cuts would be simple to do and the $$ savings over 12X20 sheets is notable.

User Removed · May 30, 2006

Maybe with the 2 inchs of film you cut off, you can use it to make 2"x20"s!!! Now that would be true panoramic HAHA!

Kimberly Anderson · May 30, 2006

I was going to trim one inch off of each side.

1x20's would be much cooler I think.

User Removed · May 30, 2006

It would probably be easier to just crop 2" off one side, and cover 2" of your ground glass off with a piece of mat or something.

When I shoot 4x10 with my 8x10 camera or 5.5x14 with my 11x14 camera, I have a darkslide that is cut in half horizontal to slide in when the other side is removed. This gives a clean, sharp edge and there is no need to cut or crop anything! It produced the size negative that I viewed in the camera.

User Removed · May 30, 2006

Take a look at this link to the 4x10 darkslide.

http://www.benderphoto.com/4x10pa.htm

You could do the same thing if you found some old 12x20 darkslides or made some yourself. Heck...you could make 6x20 and shoot 2 frames on each negative!

Kimberly Anderson · May 30, 2006

That Efke roll film is pretty dang affordable. At $189 for 100 feet, I can 'theoretically' get 60 sheets of 10x20 film.

How does it print? How does it take different developers? This actually might be appealing on a few levels here. Just have to find out more about this Efke film, a reduction back and some 10x20 holders.

This is kind of part of the fun I s'pose.

Hmmmmm.....

EDIT:

I wonder if the 120 film base is going to be a hassle when printing/processing? Is it going to be like a great big huge roll of 120 film trying to curl up in the tray? What about loading? I wonder about the leading edge wanting to curl up and not engage in the holder end?

Just some potential issues I'm realizing. Are any of them valid?

jimgalli · May 30, 2006

Michael Slade said:
That Efke roll film is pretty dang affordable. At $189 for 100 feet, I can 'theoretically' get 60 sheets of 10x20 film.

How does it print? How does it take different developers? This actually might be appealing on a few levels here. Just have to find out more about this Efke film, a reduction back and some 10x20 holders.

This is kind of part of the fun I s'pose.

Hmmmmm.....

EDIT:

I wonder if the 120 film base is going to be a hassle when printing/processing? Is it going to be like a great big huge roll of 120 film trying to curl up in the tray? What about loading? I wonder about the leading edge wanting to curl up and not engage in the holder end?

Just some potential issues I'm realizing. Are any of them valid?

It prints beautifully as far as my 810 contacts go. It's really nice film. I've only used PMK and PcatHD to develop it. It will try to curl but not badly. In a tray I presoak it face down in the water and that relaxes the curl as the emulsion gets wet. Then I pour out the water, flip it over and pour in the developer. In a tube, (you could make a BTZS type tube out of 3" ABS waste pipe) the curl of the pipe works against it's wound curl. With a 40" tube and dual removeable end caps you could develop 2 at a time. If you want to make a temp 10X20 mod to one of the holders, I'll cut you a couple of pieces and mail them to you so you can get a feel for the film. I just rate it at 80 and shoot it. 13 min in PcatHD is my normal since I'm going for PtPd contrast. Once developed it seems to stay fairly flat. It isn't a hassle during the printing.

Dave Wooten · May 30, 2006

some one cut possibilities

cut it to 7 inches and shoot 7 x 10 in 7 x 17

cut it to 14 inches and shoot 10 x 14 in 14 x 17 camera

cut it to 17 inches and shoot 10 x 17 in 14 x 17 camera

Robert Hall · May 30, 2006

Michael Slade said:
I was going to trim one inch off of each side.

1x20's would be much cooler I think.

Don't they call that 35mm?

Kimberly Anderson · May 31, 2006

jimgalli said:
It prints beautifully as far as my 810 contacts go...

That answers most of my questions very nicely.

I might have to run some numbers and do an amortization on costs vs. just shooting sheet film.

This is getting a bit interesting....

Robert, yes, that's called 35mm...a format I gave up 8 years ago.

You're still on my list BTW...I'll be coming down this weekend. I'll call you.

George Losse · May 31, 2006

Michael Slade said:
I was going to trim one inch off of each side.

1x20's would be much cooler I think.

Michael,

Its always better to make one cut on film instead of two.
Reduces the chance of scratching in half.

Also remember be careful to cut on the side of the film opposite the notch, you don't want to trim that off.

I know others have had great results with cutting down roll film. I haven't.
It always wants to stay curled.

darinwc · May 31, 2006

Something to think about...
If you keep the film in its 12x20 format instead of cutting it, you get a little extra room to hold the negative without damaging the image.

10x20 inch ULF???

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