10s exposures at f22 on 6x6 negs

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

'Wading back into printing & haven't done MF before this week. (Thank You, Mark!) As I imagine trying to doge & burn w/ any complex composition, 10s just isn't enough time. The 80mm Nikkor stops down to f45, but aren't I losing clarity to diffraction going to the next smaller apertures? 'Don't know if there are other ways to lessen exposure & lengthen exposure time to allow for manipulation of values.

jgoody · Jan 10, 2017

HiHoSilver said:
'Wading back into printing & haven't done MF before this week. (Thank You, Mark!) As I imagine trying to doge & burn w/ any complex composition, 10s just isn't enough time. The 80mm Nikkor stops down to f45, but aren't I losing clarity to diffraction going to the next smaller apertures? 'Don't know if there are other ways to lessen exposure & lengthen exposure time to allow for manipulation of values.

How about ND filter?

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

J, thank you. I've heard of trying it. 'Don't know if adding another air/glass surface would add any noticeable affect on quality (versus another f-stop).

I wondered if dialing in contrast filtration that cancelled each other out would dim the light any or serve in a similar fashion to the ND filter?

Gerald C Koch · Jan 10, 2017

You don't mention what enlarger you are using. If you are using graded paper you can reduce the amount of light with a variable transformer (Variac is one brand). The voltage setting is marked on the dial and should be saved for future reprints. With reduced voltage the color temperature of an incandescent bulb is lessened, that is more read.

Eric Rose · Jan 10, 2017

10 sec's isn't to short. Just do a practice "dodge" before you actually do the real one. Must be a pretty thin neg or a small print by the sounds of it.

MattKing · Jan 10, 2017

Yes, remind us which enlarger and which light source you are using.

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

Enlarger is a Saunders/LPL 670 DXL Dichroic - dial-in filtration.

So far, thick or thin hasn't varied much over 2s difference in exposure time.

Paper is Ilford resin coated VC

MattKing · Jan 10, 2017

Do you have the standard 85W QH bulb installed, or the higher power 100W QH bulb installed? If it is the higher power version, swap it out.
KHB is the Canadian distributor, and their accessory list doesn't list any filter options, but you are correct that if you add equal amounts of magenta and yellow filtration, you will introduce some effective reduction of intensity. Theoretically, adding cyan shouldn't matter, because it just reduces red, but if you add the same amount, it might have a small effect.

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

Matt, again, thank you. 'Checking bulb - documentation isn't an exact fit on getting to the lamp.

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

The lamp housing says its a 100w. 'Will have to look for some bulb replacement docs to see how to get at this one.
There's a spare bulb, and it is 100w.

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

Are most of you using the exposures this short? Eric sounds like he is.

MattKing · Jan 10, 2017

You can certainly work with short exposures like that, even if many do prefer something longer.
The high intensity light source is excellent for colour negatives and colour paper, where longer exposure can create problems.
There may be other ways of inserting some ND into the light path.

jimjm · Jan 10, 2017

I've got the Saunders/LPL C670 MXL with the dichroic head, and use dual filtration values to lengthen the exposure times, versus a single magenta/yellow filter. If you're still getting short print times, you may consider rigging up an ND filter below the lens.

For a 645 or 6x6 negative I find I expose between 10-20 sec at f16 or f22 for a 5x7 print of a normally-exposed negative. Ideally, I like to print at about f8 or f11 and it's easier to dodge/burn as the projected image is brighter.

Ilford's Contrast Control Fact Sheet lists the values to use for various enlargers with Ilford MG paper. LPL enlargers fall under the settings for Kodak values. Another plus is you don't need to adjust exposure times when changing grades as much when using dual filtration as opposed to single.

jimjm · Jan 10, 2017

HiHoSilver said:
The lamp housing says its a 100w. 'Will have to look for some bulb replacement docs to see how to get at this one.
There's a spare bulb, and it is 100w.

Mine also uses a 12v 100W halogen bulb.

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

'Saw how the lamp is accessed. Its oriented to beam to the front - at the operator, hits a 45deg surface & down to the neg holder & lens. Perhaps an ND over the port. Hopefully find a way to attach that withstands the temps from the halogen lamp.
Excellent help again, Matt. Many Thanks. I sure appreciate it.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 10, 2017

I have a Saunder too. To produce an ND filter just dial in equal amounts of cyan, magenta and yellow. This would be in addition to whatever filtration you would be using.

HiHoSilver · Jan 10, 2017

Gerald, Thank You!! This is terribly helpful. I sure appreciate it.

Doremus Scudder · Jan 11, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
I have a Saunders too. To produce an ND filter just dial in equal amounts of cyan, magenta and yellow. This would be in addition to whatever filtration you would be using.

Actually, you only need to dial in equal amounts of yellow and magenta. This will remove blue and green light from your system giving you a longer exposure, but pass the full amount of red light, which your paper isn't sensitive to, but will make the image a bit brighter for viewing (although redder...).

FWIW, I like exposure times about 30 seconds; 10 seconds is way to short for me if I have to do any manipulations.

Best,

Doremus

bdial · Jan 11, 2017

If the bulb is an MR16 base (two small pins) you can buy 12 volt 50 watt bulbs in the home centers. The probably won't be quite right for color temperature, but you should be able to adjust for that. My 4x5 LPL has an attenuator to reduce the light, but I don't know if it's a feature of the 670.
If you're concerned about an extra glass surface with a filter under the lens you could get a ND gel filter and put it on top of the carrier over the negative.

henpe · Jan 11, 2017

I have a LPL Dichroic head and do b&w-work only, so I removed the cyan filter and replaced it with a piece of aluminum (=opaque). This will effectively give you a dial-in ND filter since the metal will screen of the light as you dial in more of the "cyan". It was very easy to remove the filter, and the filter is square so it was equally easy to cut a piece of metal of the same size. If you are prepared to take some extra effort, you can experiment with drilling a gradient pattern of small holes in the metal sheet, so that when the "filter" is progressively pushed into the light path the light intensity fall of more linearly with respect to the numbers on the "cyan" dial scale. If you just use a square piece of opaque material, the drop off will be quite non-linear with respect to the numbers on the dial.

(as b&w material are insensitive to red light, dialing in more cyan does not prolong exposure times)

DWThomas · Jan 11, 2017

I'm using an ancient Omega B8 with a PH111(?) 75W bulb and I had the same experience of alarmingly short exposure times. I treated myself to a 2-stop ND filter and haven't looked back. Partly by luck, I now have 50, 80 and 105mm EL Nikkor enlarging lenses which all take the same filter -- YES! And yes after my first session, I wrote in here saying "wow, is today's paper way faster than in the 1960s?"

A side benefit: I usually start with ~5x5 inch "test prints" where I definitely needed/wanted the ND filter. When I crank up the enlarger head and go to do the bigger 10x10 or so prints, removing the ND filter gets me right in the ballpark for the exposure, assuming the same paper. (Not print and go, but within a minor tweak from a quick test strip.)

Dan0001 · Jan 11, 2017

I use an Omega B-22 with a PH111 75W bulb and had the same problem with Ilford Multicontrast RC papers. I simply found a floor dimmer switch and reduced the intensity aprox 50% So far no problem.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 11, 2017

Doremus Scudder said:
Actually, you only need to dial in equal amounts of yellow and magenta. This will remove blue and green light from your system giving you a longer exposure, but pass the full amount of red light, which your paper isn't sensitive to, but will make the image a bit brighter for viewing (although redder...).

FWIW, I like exposure times about 30 seconds; 10 seconds is way to short for me if I have to do any manipulations.

Best,

Doremus

I like exposures in the 30 second range too, as it gives ample time to dodge and burn smoothly. When I was a beginner and had negatives with wildly varying density, I'd resort to swap out the normal 150W bulb in my condenser head to a 75W when I worked with thin negatives. The pain of doing that really motivated me to get my film exposure and film processing under control.

I agree that adding equal amounts of yellow and magenta will cancel out contrast adjustments, and yield what is an ND filter as seen by the MG paper. Good advice!

Skiver101 · Jan 11, 2017

Would raising the height help ?

Bob Carnie · Jan 11, 2017

My favourite time is 10 seconds , shorter than 7.5 seconds I do not like and over 25 seconds I hate.

10s exposures at f22 on 6x6 negs

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10s exposures at f22 on 6x6 negs

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