1 year old developer

Henri Venable · Sep 4, 2010

Hey all, I got into film processing a year ago but with college and studying abroad I haven't been able to do it as consistenly as I would have liked. Anyway, I have one more roll of Delta 100 and since no one develops Delta around here (or so they say) I was wondering if it would be possible to use 1 year old ID-11 solution (just to be clear, it was mixed a year ago - it hasn't been a powder for some time).

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to adjust the length of development to account for any loss of potency? Fresh ID-11 at stock strength develops Delta 100 in 8.5 minutes so I thought maybe doubling that (to 16 minutes) might give me some results. Any thoughts?

Whatever happens I'll try and post up the results if anyone's interested.

panchro-press · Sep 4, 2010

I'd dump it. Why risk a roll of film and the work of making the photographs on it to a year-old developer?
Even if it's not shot, it's certainly beyond its optimum.

Dave

bdial · Sep 4, 2010

If it's bad, even doubling the time probably won't get you where you want to be. Assuming you're using 35, you could test it with some of the leader, it should turn it black in a couple of minutes or so.
If the bottle was full to the top, it might be good, if it's not full to the top, I'd probably not bother even testing. If you'll be processing infrequently, consider using a developer like Kodak HC-110, Ilford's equivalent, or Rodinal. The concentrate form of these will keep almost indefinitely.

kevs · Sep 4, 2010

Hi Henri,

It depends how your ID-11 has been stored. If it's full-strength solution, stored in air-tight bottles and still looks clear, it will be fine. If it has oxidised (turned brown), it might have deteriorated beyond use. Having said that, I stored some full-strength ID-11 in a 1 gallon bottle for 2 years, tested it and it was fine at 3:1 dilution without compensation, despite having turned light brown. I've since decanted it into 1 litre pop bottles. If you diluted it before storing, it's probably best to throw it away.

If the film is valuable, you'd be wise to test the dev using an unimportant one.

All IMO, and IME, or course.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 4, 2010

Please don't assume that ID11 loses its strength over time. The opposite is the case. It gets stronger (long story, has to do with a rise in ph and the ). So if anything, develop for less the standard time, but to be certain, work with fresh chemicals.

Henri Venable · Sep 4, 2010

Thanks for the responses guys. The film is not at all valuable. It's just a bunch snapshots I took around town. So no worries about losing some Ansel Adams quality photographs (psh...I wish). The developer has been stored in an air-tight bottle at full strength solution but I'll be sure to check the colour as well as test it on the film leader before I continue. Thanks for the suggestions.

Curt · Sep 5, 2010

If it's roll film you could do a snip test.

Bill Burk · Sep 5, 2010

I don't know about ID11 but as Ralph says it might actually be faster-acting with age. I often exceed the shelf life recommendations of D-76 with no ill-effects. Only once did I find it totally inactive so I lost a roll. So I'd recommend taking just a piece of film and dropping it in your developer just to watch it turn black. If it does that, then you know the developer isn't "bad". Then to follow Ralph's hunch, develop just about the recommended time or slightly less.

Ian Grant · Sep 5, 2010

Personally I'd test it first, just shoot a few frames of 35mm and process them. ID-11/D76 both have a reasonable shelf life so while Ilford's recommended storage life is 6 months in practice a year should be fine.

Both Ilford and Kodak have tweaked the alkali/buffering from the original published formula so a pH change due to storage is far less of an issue with their current versions of this developer.

Ian

fschifano · Sep 5, 2010

This is just plain silly. Ilford clams that unused stock solution of ID-11 will be reliable up to six months if stored in completely full and well stoppered bottles. Anything other than that is a crap shoot. Now ask yourself, how much did that roll of film cost? Probably almost as much as it would cost to replace the developer. Is it worth is? Not to me it isn't. I'd chuck it and be done with it.

Curt · Sep 5, 2010

I'd say go for it Henri if the film is of no or little importance, the reason I say this is that in using it you will learn what is and isn't possible. Everything is a learning process, this a as good a time as any to practice loading the film and going through the procedure of development again. There have been some unexpected results from situations like this, you never know what might come out. Are these pinhole shots?

How is college going, I remember those days, I couldn't wait for the breaks so I could do some personal work. It seemed like I was working everyday year 'round for literally years. I could convert an apartment bathroom to a darkroom in minutes. Then one day I woke up and found myself done with military service, college, work, more college, more work, raised a family, became retired and have a darkroom that's permanent. It all seems like a flash so enjoy it all while you can.

Curt

thisismyname09 · Sep 5, 2010

fschifano said:
This is just plain silly. Ilford clams that unused stock solution of ID-11 will be reliable up to six months if stored in completely full and well stoppered bottles. Anything other than that is a crap shoot. Now ask yourself, how much did that roll of film cost? Probably almost as much as it would cost to replace the developer. Is it worth is? Not to me it isn't. I'd chuck it and be done with it.

Kodak also claims that Xtol will not last more than six months in full bottles, but I've used it well past a full year with rather consistent results. ID-11 could be a whole different story, though.

Wade D · Sep 5, 2010

I had some D-76 I mixed a year ago and after seeing the color I tossed it. Better to use fresh chemicals.

fschifano · Sep 5, 2010

thisismyname09 said:
Kodak also claims that Xtol will not last more than six months in full bottles, but I've used it well past a full year with rather consistent results. ID-11 could be a whole different story, though.

It may very well last longer than the claim. I've had D-76 and XTOL work that was older than that, but all bets are off at that point. You don't know how much or if it has changed and considering the cost of film these days, it's just not worth it. ID-11/D-76 are dirt cheap. Enough D-76 to make a gallon of stock solution costs about $6. Enough ID-11 to make 5L is about $10. On the other end of the equation, a single roll of 135-36 Delta 100 is $5.31 from the same supplier. Is it worth it to take the chance? Not to me. The numbers don't add up. For a little more than the cost of a roll of film, you can replace the developer with a fresh 1 gallon batch D-76 (exactly the same as ID-11 in use). For a little less than the cost of 2 rolls of film, you can replace it with 5L of ID-11.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 5, 2010

Your logic is sound, but it's not always about the money alone. People are frugal and 'environmentally trained' these days. The combination creates a lot of hesitance pouring chemicals down the drain that may still be good. If one is willing to invest the time, and there is enough 'old' developer left to make it worth ones while, a test development with a few frames may be a good compromise.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 5, 2010

If the film were important then I would say you should not take the chance however you say it is not important. That said, if you only develop film sporadically then you should consider using a developer with good shelf like HC-110 or Rodinal. Both these developers last for years as concentrates and you won't have to be in doubt again.

removed account4 · Sep 5, 2010

you might want to just buy new developer
instead of experimenting with old developer.
developer is cheap, images on film well,
they are usually a moment in time ...

if you have your heart of using your old developer ..
as others have said, you should do a clip test, maybe shoot
a roll of film just for this ... and cut off pieces, and test different
times for your developer. you might also do a test for "stand" development
just leaving your film with little or no agitation for about 1/2 hour ...

if you had instant coffee, washing soda, and vitamin C you could mix
up a batch of caffenol C and add a little of your stronger than usual film developer
in with it about 100CC/1L.. you can either agitate like any film developer but for about 10-12 mins
or leave it be, unagitated, for 20-25 minutes. the caffenol will make a nice stain
and the film developer will give you a boost in contrast that some complain caffenol lacks.

have fun
john

Ronald Moravec · Sep 5, 2010

After all the work of getting images on the roll, you want to take a chance?

fschifano · Sep 5, 2010

Look, I'm just about the most frugal guy out there; and I still wouldn't bother to take the chance. As far as the environmental impact of tossing a few litres of developer down the drain, well that's just a red herring. The stuff is not particularly toxic, and it breaks down very qickly in the presence of oxygen. The worst thing that can be said about it is that developers will rob oxygen from the surrounding environment. Part of what goes on in a modern sewage treatment plant is aeration of the effluent for just that reason - it's not even a problem if the stuff is already oxidized.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 5, 2010

fschifano said:
Look, I'm just about the most frugal guy out there; and I still wouldn't bother to take the chance. As far as the environmental impact of tossing a few litres of developer down the drain, well that's just a red herring. The stuff is not particularly toxic, and it breaks down very qickly in the presence of oxygen. The worst thing that can be said about it is that developers will rob oxygen from the surrounding environment. Part of what goes on in a modern sewage treatment plant is aeration of the effluent for just that reason - it's not even a problem if the stuff is already oxidized.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but to most: perception is truth.

Bill Burk · Sep 5, 2010

To avoid finding yourself in this situation going forward, a concentrate will give you fresh chems every time! If it's off-color or smells, of course dump it. You've seen advice to develop in old or make fresh, and both arguments have their validity. I argued earlier to develop in the old stuff, but now I am swayed the other way. Even if you don't care now, what if some unlikely turn of events makes these the most valuable shots you ever take, like what if your best friend becomes President and you have the only early shots.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 5, 2010

In my experience, storing D76/ID11 full-strength in 150 ml (olive glass) sealable containers, filled up to the rim (really just a an air bubble or two left) and stored in the dark, there is no color change or smell for up to 18 months (I did not test for a longer time). Still, the developer activity is not stable over this time frame. There is a slow increase in activity, which I found to be acceptabel but not negligible.

Ian Grant · Sep 5, 2010

fschifano said:
Look, I'm just about the most frugal guy out there; and I still wouldn't bother to take the chance. As far as the environmental impact of tossing a few litres of developer down the drain, well that's just a red herring. The stuff is not particularly toxic, and it breaks down very qickly in the presence of oxygen. The worst thing that can be said about it is that developers will rob oxygen from the surrounding environment. Part of what goes on in a modern sewage treatment plant is aeration of the effluent for just that reason - it's not even a problem if the stuff is already oxidized.

Tell that to the old ex Kodak man, you want someone to pour an unused developer with 100g per litre Sodium Sulphite down a drain, along with un-oxidised Metol & Hydroqinone.

He'd send you to the Guillotine for getting shot of 20g Sulphite in HCA

Luckily we share the same real world realism.

Ian

Iridium · Sep 5, 2010

I have a concentrate HC-110 since 2006 and I still use dilutions from this and it looks alive! I have already developed 100 films and the 1/3 is still in the bottle. This developer seems to last for ages!

P.S.: I always check its tension if I haven't use it for a while.

Henri Venable · Sep 6, 2010

Curt said:
I'd say go for it Henri if the film is of no or little importance, the reason I say this is that in using it you will learn what is and isn't possible. Everything is a learning process, this a as good a time as any to practice loading the film and going through the procedure of development again. There have been some unexpected results from situations like this, you never know what might come out. Are these pinhole shots?

How is college going, I remember those days, I couldn't wait for the breaks so I could do some personal work. It seemed like I was working everyday year 'round for literally years. I could convert an apartment bathroom to a darkroom in minutes. Then one day I woke up and found myself done with military service, college, work, more college, more work, raised a family, became retired and have a darkroom that's permanent. It all seems like a flash so enjoy it all while you can.

Curt

I agree with you Curt. The process of shooting and developing film is a much more rewarding learning experience. Even if the photos hadn't come out, half the fun is the unexpected! Althought I love pinhole photography these were just shot with an old film PnS I had laying around. College is almost over by the way .

I did test both the developer and fixer with the leader and they seemed unaffected by age. Because I was working at a higher temp than normal I reduced dev time to 6min and fixed for 4.5min just to make sure it worked. Looking at the negatives the photos came out just fine (I'll know for sure when I get them scanned).

I shoot film mostly because it releases me of control and allows for the unknown. So in a way, I was hoping for some random results but it's good to know developer and fixer can last so long past their "expiration date."

1 year old developer

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency