1/500 speed on Planar 80mm f2.8 C T*

Shadow 2

A
Shadow 2

  • 0
  • 0
  • 22
Shadow 1

A
Shadow 1

  • 2
  • 0
  • 21
Darkroom c1972

A
Darkroom c1972

  • 1
  • 2
  • 35
Tōrō

H
Tōrō

  • 4
  • 0
  • 40

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,826
Messages
2,781,492
Members
99,718
Latest member
nesunoio
Recent bookmarks
0

phass

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
57
Location
US
Format
Multi Format
Hi all.
I need a help to identify what part of the shutter responsible for executing 1/500 speed. If possible drop the pic or refer to the part # from the service manual. Any help will be appreciated.
Cheers.
P.s. I’ m not looking for the dial position.
 

ic-racer

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Messages
16,546
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
In many leaf shutters, the escapement is bypassed entirely at the fastest speed.
 

Mamiya_Repair

Advertiser
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
222
Location
Nevada
Format
Medium Format
As mentioned, the speeds escapement is totally bypassed at the highest shutter speed. So actual speed at 1/500 would be determined by several factors: condition of main spring, wear on parts, lubrication (or lack of) on parts, condition of shutter blades (oil contamination?). Also, keep in mind that tolerance at 1/500 typically is 30% for leaf shutters so likely these shutters never gave 1/500 even when new.
 
OP
OP

phass

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
57
Location
US
Format
Multi Format
In many leaf shutters, the escapement is bypassed entirely at the fastest speed.
Thank you ic-racer.


As mentioned, the speeds escapement is totally bypassed at the highest shutter speed. So actual speed at 1/500 would be determined by several factors: condition of main spring, wear on parts, lubrication (or lack of) on parts, condition of shutter blades (oil contamination?). Also, keep in mind that tolerance at 1/500 typically is 30% for leaf shutters so likely these shutters never gave 1/500 even when new.

Thank you Mamiya_Repair,
Currently I am measuring -50%. So it’s the bath time.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,364
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
If all the speeds are within specs except for 1/500, I would first replace the main spring as part of a service/cleaning

I would start by doing a CLA instead of randomly replacing parts. 1/500 second is done by the escapement parts, check to see that they are clean and not held up by a collection of dirt and oil.
 
OP
OP

phass

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
57
Location
US
Format
Multi Format
If all the speeds are within specs except for 1/500, I would first replace the main spring as part of a service/cleaning

The most of speeds off are below 5%, 1/125 is 13% off, and I rarely use 1/500, so I’ll able to live w/o it. Unfortunately I do not have spare parts at this moment.
 
OP
OP

phass

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
57
Location
US
Format
Multi Format
I would start by doing a CLA instead of randomly replacing parts. 1/500 second is done by the escapement parts, check to see that they are clean and not held up by a collection of dirt and oil.

I do not have spare parts, so I stuck with CLA
 

piu58

Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
1,531
Location
Leipzig, Germany
Format
Medium Format
Please keep in mind that especially the fastest speed strongly depends on aperture. You may reach 1/500 with f/22, but not with f/2.8.
 

Arthurwg

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
2,677
Location
Taos NM
Format
Medium Format
Please keep in mind that especially the fastest speed strongly depends on aperture. You may reach 1/500 with f/22, but not with f/2.8.


Now that reallyiq interesting. Have not heard it before. As I understand it, most of these lenses would be lucky to achieve 1/350 sec at 1/500.
 

Mamiya_Repair

Advertiser
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
222
Location
Nevada
Format
Medium Format
Please keep in mind that especially the fastest speed strongly depends on aperture. You may reach 1/500 with f/22, but not with f/2.8.
Just to clarify: Because of the way Compur and most leaf shutters operate (the blades open fully at all apertures) and shutter inefficiency (it takes time for the blades to open and close) smaller apertures will actually provide a longer exposure. So if you had an exposure time of 1/500 at f/2.8, your f/22 exposure could be 1/250 or so, depending on how quickly the blades open/close.
 

itsdoable

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
823
Location
Canada
Format
Medium Format
Please keep in mind that especially the fastest speed strongly depends on aperture. You may reach 1/500 with f/22, but not with f/2.8.
Just to clarify: Because of the way Compur and most leaf shutters operate (the blades open fully at all apertures) and shutter inefficiency (it takes time for the blades to open and close) smaller apertures will actually provide a longer exposure. So if you had an exposure time of 1/500 at f/2.8, your f/22 exposure could be 1/250 or so, depending on how quickly the blades open/close.
Yes, you may be thinking about the Rolleiflex SLX/6xxx/Hy6 lenses where the blades are driven by a linear motor, then they can actually reach a higher speed by opening just enough to cover the smaller aperture.

I believe the the Hasselblad H lenses are similar. Not sure about the PhaseOne.
 
Last edited:

piu58

Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
1,531
Location
Leipzig, Germany
Format
Medium Format
> So if you had an exposure time of 1/500 at f/2.8, your f/22 exposure could be 1/250 or so, depending on how quickly the blades open/close.

The other way. Times with f/22 are faster. The shutter opens a bit, which is sufficient for f/22 and then opens to cover the f/2.8 which takes time.
 

rulnacco

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
249
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Format
Medium Format
> So if you had an exposure time of 1/500 at f/2.8, your f/22 exposure could be 1/250 or so, depending on how quickly the blades open/close.

The other way. Times with f/22 are faster. The shutter opens a bit, which is sufficient for f/22 and then opens to cover the f/2.8 which takes time.

Actually, the previous poster was correct, if you reason it out. His username, Mamiya_Repair, gives a hint why he would be. I don't have time to write out the full explanation, as I believe it to be (I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong), but to boil it down, in a Hasselblad lens, the shutter and the aperture are two separate mechanisms. The shutter has nothing to do with the size of the aperture.

And no matter what aperture you shoot at, the shutter blades open all the way. The aperture mechanism, which is separate from the shutter, determines the size of the opening the light passes through as the shutter blades are open.

When you fire a leaf shutter, the center bit is the first part that opens, and it's also the very last part that closes down--it is open during the entire shutter cycle. So if you're shooting at a small aperture, because of shutter inefficiency, the center part has to "wait" for the shutter blades to open completely (even though, as you pointed out, they wouldn't need to for, say, F22, but the design of the shutter requires them to open all the way) and then close back down again. So after the shutter blades have passed the diameter of the F22 aperture when opening, and before they come back to the point they are closing it back down, "extra" light is being let in--the exposure time is lengthened.

If you're shooting at F2.8, because it does take time for the shutter blades to open to the full width of the aperture, but then immediately they start closing down again from the edge, effectively the exposure of the entire wide-open aperture as a whole is approximately 1/500 second. The entire shutter cycle lasts a fair bit longer than 1/500 second (which is why the center portion, corresponding to the F22 aperture and open nearly throughout the shutter cycle, is open longer than 1/500 of a second), but because the periphery when shooting at 2.8 is "deprived" of light because it's the last to be uncovered and the first to be recovered, the effective exposure is less than the time of the entire cycle, and should hopefully correspond to the amount of exposure you'd get from a perfectly efficient shutter that uncovered the entire F2.8 aperture diameter instantaneously, and just as instantaneously closed it completely 1/500 of a second later.

I know it's counterintuitive on the face of it that a larger aperture should have a shorter exposure time in this scenario. But because they are separate mechanisms, because of how leaf shutters work, and because the shutter opens all the way on every exposure (not just the minimum distance required), no matter what you've set the aperture to, it actually works out that way.

That's my explanation, anyway!
 
Last edited:
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom