1:1 9 inch doll

[Darryl Roberts]

I am trying to shoot some dolls, they stand at maximum 9 inches tall with my Sinar Norma 4x5. I tried the following lenses 210mm, 150mm and 90mm.

I could get the top third only as 1:1 (yes I doubled the focal length). How, at 1:1 - lifesize, can I get the whole doll?

 

[StepheKoontz]

With an 8X10 camera.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

With an 8X10 camera.

Thank you. It's not possible with 4x5?

 

[cramej]

Thank you. It's not possible with 4x5?

No, a 9" doll at 1:1 is the same 9" on film.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

No, a 9" doll at 1:1 is the same 9" on film.

Thank you very much.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

Can any one recommended a focal length for the 8x10 camera to shoot the doll?

 

[mshchem]

Can any one recommended a focal length for the 8x10 camera to shoot the doll?

You need to remember that at 1:1 you need to have bellows extension TWICE the focal length of the lens. A 12 inch (300mm) lens is pretty standard. A digital (black and white ) negative can be made with a ink jet printer from a digital file.

 

[wiltw]

Daryl, it would be useful to understand what '1:1' represents...it is the notation to indication ' actual size of subject : size of image at focal plane' is identical, or 1:1
So if a 20" object were fit onto a 8x10 film, the image of the object is 1/2 on film, or 1:2

The convention does not at all represent the size on print, interesting, but is based upon Capture Size.

 

[wiltw]

Can any one recommended a focal length for the 8x10 camera to shoot the doll?

FL simply implies the bellows extension length, and the distance from film plan to subject, so you can accomplish the same thing with most any FL as long as your bellows can extend far enough!

• With 90mm FL, the subject-to-focal-plane is 4 * 90 in order to capture 1:1
• With 180mm FL, the subject-to-focal-plane is 4 * 180 in order to capture 1:1
• and the 180mm FL will give you more space between the subject and the front of lens (i.e. a longer 'working distance') than you would have with 90mm FL

 

[Darryl Roberts]

FL simply implies the bellows extension length, and the distance from film plan to subject, so you can accomplish the same thing with most any FL as long as your bellows can extend far enough!

• With 90mm FL, the subject-to-focal-plane is 4 * 90 in order to capture 1:1
• With 180mm FL, the subject-to-focal-plane is 4 * 180 in order to capture 1:1
• and the 180mm FL will give you more space between the subject and the front of lens (i.e. a longer 'working distance') than you would have with 90mm FL

According to Ansel Adams' The Camera that's incorrect, and I quote, page 180, "if you wish to obtain 1:1 (i.e., life-size) images of a subject, the total extension of the lens must be twice its focal length." So a 90mm needs bellows or extension of 180mm to capture life size.

 

[MattKing]

In any event, you need a lens that performs well at that magnification. If you are photographing a doll, you might also need more depth of field than one might ordinarily achieve with 1:1 magnification on 8"x10" film - look for a lens that performs well at smaller apertures.
Are you planning to contact print the results? Otherwise, an enlarged 4"x5" negative might be better for the project (depending on what the project is).

 

[wiltw]

According to Ansel Adams' The Camera that's incorrect, and I quote, page 180, "if you wish to obtain 1:1 (i.e., life-size) images of a subject, the total extension of the lens must be twice its focal length." So a 90mm needs bellows or extension of 180mm to capture life size.

I was not referring to bellows length...I was referring to the distance from Subject-to-Film as 4 * FL ...the extension tube length is half of that total distance... 2*FL in front of the lens, plus 2*FL behind the lens. Ansel agrees

 

[wiltw]

In any event, you need a lens that performs well at that magnification. If you are photographing a doll, you might also need more depth of field than one might ordinarily achieve with 1:1 magnification on 8"x10" film - look for a lens that performs well at smaller apertures.

Shooting with 300mm lens at f/32, you would achieve 1:1 at a shooting distance (subject-to-film) of 3.93 feet, and the DOF is 0.5 feet.
If you used f/22, the DOF narrows to 0.36 feet.

(Note that these computations use the 'manufacturer standard' Circle of Confusion size, which does NOT stand up to critical examination by anyone with 20/20 vision (what the U.S. optometrist strives to achieve for his/her patients)!)

 

[Darryl Roberts]

I was not referring to bellows length...I was referring to the distance from Subject-to-Film as 4 * FL ...the extension tube length is half of that total distance... 2*FL in front of the lens, plus 2*FL behind the lens. Ansel agrees

I see, thank you

 

[ic-racer]

I am trying to shoot some dolls, they stand at maximum 9 inches tall with my Sinar Norma 4x5. I tried the following lenses 210mm, 150mm and 90mm.

I could get the top third only as 1:1 (yes I doubled the focal length). How, at 1:1 - lifesize, can I get the whole doll?

A nine-inch doll on 4"x5" film? Cut off the legs or head.

 

[jim10219]

A nine-inch doll on 4"x5" film? Cut off the legs or head.

Or put the doll in a seated pose.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

In any event, you need a lens that performs well at that magnification. If you are photographing a doll, you might also need more depth of field than one might ordinarily achieve with 1:1 magnification on 8"x10" film - look for a lens that performs well at smaller apertures.
Are you planning to contact print the results? Otherwise, an enlarged 4"x5" negative might be better for the project (depending on what the project is).

I just revisited this and I agree and will shoot it with 4x5 since I'm not a fanatic.

 

[jtk]

Two shots at 100% each, scanned at 100% each, spliced by PS.