if you are not prepared to draw it, dont photograph it

Old-N-Feeble · Aug 12, 2014

When I first started taking photos at age 13 I wasted a lot of film, chemicals, paper and time... but had tons of fun. As I learned to "see" better I started being more selective... but photography was even more fun because my skills were improving and I was taking pride in my work. As time progressed, I stopped shooting 135 format and concentrated on 6x7cm (RB67) and and 4x5in... I became more selective and photography was that much more fun. Later, I quit with the RB67 and bought a 6x9cm Horseman VHR because I wanted GG viewing for roll film and a more compact alternative to the Toyo monorail plus I liked the longer format. After that I only shot with a Toyo 4x5 and the Horseman 6x9. My shooting became extremely selective. I wouldn't snap the photo unless I was 100 percent sure I'd be proud to display the print. Photography was at the funnest when I became super-selective because I knew that I'd be proud every single image I took. I shot nearly no film at all. It may be my OCD personality but that's what works for me.

frank · Aug 12, 2014

"That's what works for me."

Yes! But it will not work this way for everyone, because everyone is different.

Old-N-Feeble · Aug 12, 2014

frank said:
"That's what works for me."

Yes! But it will not work this way for everyone, because everyone is different.

I know. That's why I wrote, "...that's what works for me."

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 12, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
When I first started taking photos at age 13 I wasted a lot of film, chemicals, paper and time... but had tons of fun. As I learned to "see" better I started being more selective... but photography was even more fun because my skills were improving and I was taking pride in my work. As time progressed, I stopped shooting 135 format and concentrated on 6x7cm (RB67) and and 4x5in... I became more selective and photography was that much more fun. Later, I quit with the RB67 and bought a 6x9cm Horseman VHR because I wanted GG viewing for roll film and a more compact alternative to the Toyo monorail plus I liked the longer format. After that I only shot with a Toyo 4x5 and the Horseman 6x9. My shooting became extremely selective. I wouldn't snap the photo unless I was 100 percent sure I'd be proud to display the print. Photography was at the funnest when I became super-selective because I knew that I'd be proud every single image I took. I shot nearly no film at all. It may be my OCD personality but that's what works for me.

I have followed a similar path with similar results. Becoming more selective increases the thinking time. Which in turn slows the too often frenetic process down to a more pleasant pace. That is something I enjoy.

I have mentioned before that for me the most enjoyable part of making a photograph is the part that happens before one finally picks up the camera.

Sometimes I go on solitary "photo walks" without any camera at all. It's frequently amazing how much more one can see without the pressure of an unpressed shutter release always under one's fingertip.

If one wishes to communicate effectively with others, it's usually best not to lose control of what one is trying to say.

Ken

RalphLambrecht · Aug 12, 2014

cliveh said:
I once heard the quote if you are not prepared to draw it, dont photograph it. I thought that was quite good advice. Would some agree?

I agree.This would cut down on the junk produced.Only photograph it if it seems special in some way to you.I've done my share of pictures for the bin.

RalphLambrecht · Aug 12, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
I have followed a similar path with similar results. Becoming more selective increases the thinking time. Which in turn slows the too often frenetic process down to a more pleasant pace. That is something I enjoy.

I have mentioned before that for me the most enjoyable part of making a photograph is the part that happens before one finally picks up the camera.

Sometimes I go on solitary "photo walks" without any camera at all. It's frequently amazing how much more one can see without the pressure of an unpressed shutter release always under one's fingertip.

If one wishes to communicate effectively with others, it's usually best not to lose control of what one is trying to say.

Ken

Amazing.I do that too and made myself a card board viewing frame for it it's like photographing without a camera.It's free but teaches seeing.

frank · Aug 12, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
I know. That's why I wrote, "...that's what works for me."

Since I quoted your: "that's what works for me," I know you know.

I was just highlighting that for others who may think of arguing with you on being very selective, and also to reinforce my earlier post that not all advice is one size fits all.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 12, 2014

RalphLambrecht said:
Amazing.I do that too and made myself a card board viewing frame for it it's like photographing without a camera.It's free but teaches seeing.

Also amazing. I thought I was just about the only person left willing to slow down and take the time to use that approach...

For each of my large format camera lenses I have constructed a DIY "viewfinder" consisting of a round black ABS step-up sewer pipe fitting onto which I have glued a circular piece of all-black 4-ply matte board. The board has a proportionally calibrated cutout that, when the device is pressed flush to my eye socket, exactly duplicates the final field of view as recorded on the sheet negative for that lens.

I can carry these lens-specific viewfinders with me, but usually do not on my initial walks. Only if I see something interesting will I return, perhaps at a different time of day with better light, to try out a few "frame-ups". If any of those are promising, I then mark the spot (sticks, rocks, or sometimes a small dot of inconspicuous gray spray paint), and return with a LF camera and all of its associated paraphernalia.

For my extra-bulky 8x10 returning can involve up to three large cases on a dolly, plus a huge tripod. And sometimes the return time can take the better part of a year of waiting for the right conditions. Slow photography at work.

I currently have just such a frame-up location identified for an upcoming 8x10 treatment. It's a traditional landscape composition. But it must be done after the public schools are back in session in September. (Need to remove the teenagers from the scene.) And it must be done during an active rainstorm, and in the early evening, and after hiking into a steep canyon. The rain requirement means I will also need to set up my canopy to cover both the camera and me while making the photograph.

It will likely be an all-day event for a single highly-selective negative, just how I like it.

Ken

cliveh · Aug 12, 2014

I suppose my original post was about patience. One of the things that never ceases to surprise me is that if I walk around with a camera looking for a shot and not finding it, and then stop to rest and just sit in one place for 20 or 30 minutes, a scene will sometimes develop before me. I am not always able to capture it, but have others had a similar experience?

pdeeh · Aug 12, 2014

As Arnold's Grandma so sagely put it "Be as the frog in the pond. The frog does not seek the fly, but the fly comes to him ..."

mike c · Aug 12, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
I have followed a similar path with similar results. Becoming more selective increases the thinking time. Which in turn slows the too often frenetic process down to a more pleasant pace. That is something I enjoy.

I have mentioned before that for me the most enjoyable part of making a photograph is the part that happens before one finally picks up the camera.

Sometimes I go on solitary "photo walks" without any camera at all. It's frequently amazing how much more one can see without the pressure of an unpressed shutter release always under one's fingertip.

If one wishes to communicate effectively with others, it's usually best not to lose control of what one is trying to say.

Ken

Ken, making a fast little sketch will slow you down also.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 12, 2014

It certainly will. And if I could sketch, I'd try it.

Although I think the original reference may not have been intended as a literal one. If only sketch artists were permitted to follow up with a photograph, a huge percentage of us would be in a world of hurt.

:eek:

Ken

mike c · Aug 12, 2014

At a younger age did some pen and ink and wash drawings so have a little experience with the medium but not much now, although a pencil and small tablet would not take up much room in my photobag.

Carljoel · Jul 29, 2015

summicron1 said:
i might disagree if I knew what it was supposed to mean. One reason I take pictures is that I can't draw a straight line with a ruler...

HAHAHA!! It is also the reason why I started to learn photography. I still remember that I drew a lot when I was a kid even though I could never get a decent straight or curve line.

RobC · Jul 29, 2015

"I paint what cannot be photographed, that which comes from the imagination or from dreams, or from an unconscious drive."
Man Ray

"I photograph the things that I do not wish to paint, the things which already have an existence."
Man Ray

Nodda Duma · Jul 29, 2015

if you are not prepared to draw it, dont photograph it

I must admit I chuckle while reading through this thread. Of all the people in the world, I would think artists would be the *least* likely to take the literal meaning of a saying and *most* likely to look for the deeper meaning.

The advice makes sense...I've been trying to slow down my whole adult life (with little success )

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 29, 2015

Its a incorrect advice , when you photograph , you use light , when you draw , you use shadow.
Thats why photography and digital filters cant cope with even with an amateurs drawings.
If there is a photography which more sensitive to shadow than light , I will use or invent it.

removed account4 · Jul 29, 2015

clive, the sentence has a lot of different meanings - slow down, enjoy the scene, be able to go back until it is "right" move on
it means something different to everyone who reads it.

both a painting instructor and photography instructor told me if you squint your eyes
you will see most of the contrast of a scene, the middle tones will drop out and you will
be able to notice some of the important factors that make up the composition, framing,
and the guts of the image, a mind's eye thumbnail sketch.
if i am with a camera and i squint my eyes i will see what it looks like as a drawing. i decide
at that point if it is worth dedicating it to film / paper / glass / metal ... or maybe i will shrug my shoulders
and make the exposure anyways. if a scene/portrait &c is interesting enough that i stop and "see" it
it is probably worth the 10¢ it might cost me to expose and process it.

YMMV

RobC · Jul 29, 2015

Nodda Duma said:
I must admit I chuckle while reading through this thread. Of all the people in the world, I would think artists would be the *least* likely to take the literal meaning of a saying and *most* likely to look for the deeper meaning.

The advice makes sense...I've been trying to slow down my whole adult life (with little success )

does it apply to street photography where you can capture a fleeting moment. By the time you've considered whether you would draw it, the moment has passed and you missed it. i.e. shoot first and ask questions later.

Nodda Duma · Jul 29, 2015

Actually a good observation, RobC. So in street photography the slowing down comes after the fact.

RobC · Jul 29, 2015

Not only street photography. What about a model in the studio. Are we expected to consider whether every nuance of movement and posture is suitable for drawing before we trip the shutter. Again you would miss the shot. And what about sports photography. Would I draw that touch down? Oh dear I missed the shot again.

The advice in the OP is garbage.

RobC · Jul 29, 2015

I'd suggest the advice was from an artist/painter who does a bit of photography and hasn't learnt that photography is something different and shouldn't be thought of in the same terms. It may be that they were/are some cheapskate painter who goes out and photographs subjects and then sits at home painting from his photographs. We've all seen paintings which are semi photo realistic. I wonder why.

I think the advice should be, if you are not prepared to draw/sketch it from life then don't paint it.

removed account4 · Jul 29, 2015

there is never a 1 size fits all.

NedL · Jul 29, 2015

Didn't notice this thread the first time around, but it contains wisdom.

I'll propose this corollary:

If it's not worth photographing, it's not worth photographing well.

pdeeh · Jul 29, 2015

Ooh er, blansky won't approve of that sentiment, Ned

if you are not prepared to draw it, dont photograph it

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if you are not prepared to draw it, dont photograph it