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  1. BHuij

    A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    Several people have recommended ID-62 over D-72, primarily those who prefer PQ to MQ formulas - which seems to basically come down to shelf life. However, the E72 recipe I'm using uses Phenidone in place of Metol already, so what advantage does ID-62 have over E-72?

  2. A
    Paper developer age

    PQ print developers generally have a longer tray life than MQ ones. I use ID-62 a lot and usually get two sessions from one tray of working solution. The developer is stored in a bottle between sessions. I could maybe get more life from one batch, but it's easy to mix up new. FWIW, every...

  3. A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    I mix print developers from scratch immediately before use, using spoon recipes. Here are my recipes for D-72 and ID-62: D-72 (to make 1 liter of working solution) Water ---------------------- ~120°F a pinch of sodium sulfite (Metol dissolves better if you add a bit of sulfite first - a...
  4. relistan

    A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    This thread is pretty off track. It sounds like @koraks and @albada referred the OP to ID-62 and that's probably where it should end. I'm out :)

  5. A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    (Fe)nton reaction requires iron to take place. If your water isnt having iron, dont worry about it. I've used E72 for years, always premixed and stored as long as 6 months without issues. I dont even use distilled water. It lasts >24h in open tray at 1:1 dilution as well. Dont worry abt sudden...
  6. Anon Ymous

    A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    I've mixed ID62 with the addition of 2g/l sodium hexametaphosphate. I live in a very hard water area and didn't get any precipitate.

  7. A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    It does indeed. Also, the OP prefers to use hard well-water, and that requires adding a chelation agent to the developer. EDTA works for ID-62, but not for E-72 as it accelerates the Fenton reaction. Thus E-72 requires distilled/DI water, boosting its cost. BTW, 4 g/L of disodium EDTA...
  8. Ian Grant

    A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    PQ paper developers have a longer tray life than the equivalent MQ developer, add to that far greater capacity, so they are a far better option. If the OP looks in the resources section I've listed mixing a more concentrated version of ID-62 or ID-78, shelf life is significantly higher. Ian
  9. koraks

    A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    It does, indeed. These are the only paper developers I currently use, and at this point it's actually only ID62 as I haven't bothered with ID78 for a while. Either lasts fine for a couple of months in a half-full bottle. I keep the working strength developer in an entirely full, glass bottle...

  10. A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    ...uses such teaspoon measurements with most of the chemicals. Then use it one-shot, solving the Fenton problem. I suspect that stock solution of ID-62/78 will last 6 months, but I don't speak from experience. Perhaps somebody who has used it longer can comment. Regarding mixing powders...
  11. BHuij

    A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    ...is basically whether the powders can safely be stored all together, and whether mixing everything at once instead of one at a time actually causes a problem. I'm hopeful that it won't. If I do end up going with ID-62, how long should I expect a stock solution to last in a sealed glass bottle?

  12. A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    ...or working solution) for a week or more with no suitable sequestrant, you are risking sudden death of the developer. Instead, I suggest using ID-62 (for neutral tones) or ID-78 (for warm tones). The formulae for ID-62 and ID-78 are nearly identical, and both are easy to mix. The formula for...

  13. A
    DIY options for standard paper developer

    I don't know how you're going to avoid using powder chemicals if you want a DIY developer. ID-78 is currently the only paper developer I use: ID-78 Ilford Warm Tone Developer...
  14. relistan

    A
    My PC-512 Borax Developer

    Thanks Mark, I replied over there!
  15. Ian Grant

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ...There were problems with shifts in image colour with use due to Bromide build up, and customer complaints. So the developer was reformulated as ID-62 now including Benzotriazoleand released as a liquid concentrate PQ Universal. Bromophen is probably ID-20PQ and contains no Benzotriazole...
  16. relistan

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    I like your hot plate solution Mark. This is great. Also glad to hear that this worked how you wanted. It’s nice to have a developer you can quickly mix when needed and then be inactive for months, come back and mix another quickly. This looks like a good way to do that.

  17. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    Doremus, out of curiosity, have you (or anyone else reading this) tried omitting the Potassium bromide and Benzo? ID-62 is a 1950s formula designed for 1950s papers, so I'm wondering whether modern papers need these restrainers or the color-adjustments they give. Omitting them would make only...

  18. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ...I'm overcautious. Knowing about the problems of hydrolysis and oxidation of phenidone, I have no confidence in storing it in an aqueous (I had to look-up the spelling of that) solution for months. So I put it and HQ in PG to ensure their longevity. Does anyone know how long stock ID-62 lasts?

  19. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ...the working solution. The two-liter recipe I use is for 12x16 trays, my standard. If I want to print larger, I'll make more to start with. ID-62 will last me 2-3 sessions if I cover the tray or pour the developer back into a bottle after printing for the day. If I'm planning on many...
  20. Ian Grant

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    Doremus, ID-62 is used 1+3 for normal use, so double strength would be 1+7. Mark, as an Albada viewfinder user :D I'm not sure why the need to split a developer that keeps well into two parts, except to show it can be done. There was a time when MQ print developers were two part, and I keep...

  21. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    Mark, I mix ID-62 from scratch fairly regularly and have had no need to use PG at all. I do make a 1% aqueous solution of BTA, simply because it's easier to measure it that way. FWIW, I use spoon recipes for most of my print developers, so mixing is quite easy and less time-consuming than...

  22. A
    My PC-512 Borax Developer

    @relistan, I tried your idea of dissolving the developers in PG. But I did this with the ID-62 paper developer. Here's my posting, which includes a picture of the poor man's hot plate that I used, which you might like. Success! The developer works well, and the PG solution shows no sign of...

  23. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ID-62 Success! ID-62 with a separate PG solution works! I mixed them and tried it, with perfect results on Foma RC. I developed for 2 minutes at room temperature, and blacks are a hint darker than what Liquidol produced: densities were 1.91 vs 1.87. The hydroquinone and phenidone are dissolved...
  24. relistan

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    Definitely will be interested in your results, Mark!
  25. Ian Grant

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ...PQ developer I had found an example developer in an Ilford patent which had strange weights, but when I looked at the ratios it was obviously ID-62 (PQ Universal) but with Potassium Carbonate and some Sodium Hydroxide instead of Sodium Carbonate, so then it was simple to calculate the weights...

  26. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    That's strange! I've read that Phenidone is subject to hydrolysis, making its storage life shorter than Dimezone. Do you know why the opposite would be true?
  27. Ian Grant

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    Developers like ID-62 or ID-78 jeep well anyway if mixed as a concentrate, but unlike the film developers mixed in Propylene Glycol their Sulphite and Carbonate levels are too high which rules out Glycol. It's also worth noting that ID-62 and ID-78 which use Phenidone, have a longer shelf life...
  28. GregY

    A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    i have LPD in powder & some liquid jugs as well. It seems like two issues. I thought the OP was talking about leaving mixed developer in trays. I've never had paper developers (LPD, Neutol, Ansco 130, or Ilford Multigrade) go bad. With the cost of paper I don't care to reuse, replenish and...

  29. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ...film developers can be stored in glycol, so it should work for paper developers too. As @relistan pointed out above, I want to try this with ID-62, but have not done so yet. Usually, only some chemicals in a developer will dissolve in glycol, forcing us to keep the developer in *two* stock...

  30. A
    Paper developer with long shelf life

    ...are the first to point out the meaning of my name. Regarding the OP's desire for a "paper developer with long shelf-life": I'm planning to mix ID-62 (see formula above in post #64), but I want to dissolve the two developers (phenidone and hydroquinone) in propylene glycol (PG). If I keep the...
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