Analog photography winding machine info (35mm bulk loader)

[Rosssiiii]

Hi everyone, I’ve been offered these two bulk loaders as a gift. I don’t know anything about them, but I’d like to start buying 135 bulk film to make my own rolls. From the photos, can you recognize what type of bulk loaders they are? Are they compatible with modern 135 film rolls like this one? https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B0152OT55Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_15?smid=A11IL2PNWYJU7H&psc=1

What should I check before buying a bulk loader? This person doesn’t live in my city, so I’d have to arrange shipping, which has a cost, and I’d like to make sure it’s actually useful. I’m also posting the photos of the bulk loader.


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Ci02XR_ImPJ62fIfmEXUnBaFHtIqh0gv?usp=sharing

 

[Kino]

I am unfamiliar with those exact bulk loaders, but from the relative sizes, it appears that one is for respooling 100 feet (30 meters) of film and the larger one for 400 (121 meters) foot bulk rolls.

I found 2 mentions of the loaders on Ebay Italy:

 

[Rosssiiii]

I am unfamiliar with those exact bulk loaders, but from the relative sizes, it appears that one is for respooling 100 feet (30 meters) of film and the larger one for 400 (121 meters) foot bulk rolls.

I found 2 mentions of the loaders on Ebay Italy:

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hello
but from 70-80 years have the film reels changed in dimension ? connection points with the winding machine? if nothing has changed they should fit perfectly.

 

[Kino]

That I cannot definitely answer, but would speculate they are probably fine.

 

[koraks]

That I cannot definitely answer, but would speculate they are probably fine.

Same here!

I've added a few magic words to the thread title so it's more likely to be noticed by those who might have the definitive answer.

 

[wiltw]

If you cannot find an answer about the posted products, I can attest to this specific model product, as I have experience loading hundreds of 135 film cassettes with this product almost 60 years ago

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1683843097...lp:2332490&itmmeta=01KSQZFR19T6N9GQTN8ZN0VNG1

 

[MCB18]

hello
but from 70-80 years have the film reels changed in dimension ? connection points with the winding machine? if nothing has changed they should fit perfectly.

Film cores and spools have been standardized for a really long time. Unless you buy a 100 ft rolls meant for a weird special purpose camera, it will fit in a normal loader. Most new 100 ft rolls from the factory will come on a 25mm core with an 8mm square hole. Some 100 ft loads of film from respoolers, or older 100 ft rolls from different manufacturers, will come on a 50mm core with a 25mm hole. Foma also uses this type. Other 100 ft rolls from the past might come on an S-83 film spool, meant for Eyemo cameras. It also has an 8mm square hole in the center. Some respoolers use no core. All of these will work in any 100 ft daylight loader.

Also, please look somewhere besides Amazon for film, you can find film at lower prices and without having to worry about it being stuck in the warehouse for months.

 

[MCB18]

I attached a photo of the types of 35mm cores and spools used for 100 ft rolls.

Left to right is a 1” core for stills rolls, a 2” core meant for cinema cameras, and a daylight spool meant for Eyemo cameras.

Again, all of these will work in a normal loader so long as it is meant to hold at least 100 ft (30m) rolls. The 2” core will move around a bit but that’s fine.

 

[koraks]

Good info @MCB18 ! Note that the 1" core is a snug fit into the 2" core, and the 1" generally is a reasonably snug fit onto the spindle inside a typical bulk loader. IDK about the really vintage (Italian?) ones OP has though. I assume it'll fit one way or another. Keep in mind that a bulk loader really is just a (mostly) empty chamber with a light lock on one end where a leader sticks out so you can attach it to a spool inside a cassette. It's a fairly simple contraption.

 

[MattKing]

The 100 foot/30 metre loads were historically designed for commercial applications like ID photo cameras and school photos - the cameras were loaded with 100 feet of film and then the entire roll was exposed.
That market was, for a time, a very high volume user.
The idea of people buying those 100 foot bulk rolls and then rolling off individual 12, 20, 24 or 36 exposure rolls of film was an ingenious way of making use of a product designed for a different purpose.
I raise that issue, because I don't know whether ~ 60 years ago there might have been peculiarities of the Italian market for that industrial use of bulk loads that meant that the cores for those films were different than the ones we were used to seeing back then, or are used to seeing now. If so, those loaders might be designed to use those different cores.

 

[Bob Merlin]

You want the Watson loader! I've used one for decades and saved a ton of money. You used to be able to buy Tri-X or Plus-X in 100' rolls with just a center core. They were the same films that you could buy over the counter packaged in 24 or 36 exposures. The nice thing about bulk loaders is that you can make as few or as many shots as you'd like. The most I've gotten is 40.
You will also need some cartridges to load. Kodak used to make snap-cap re-loadable cartridges. You can find them on eBay.
Here's Wiltw's link to a Watson loader. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1683843097...lp:2332490&itmmeta=01KSQZFR19T6N9GQTN8ZN0VNG1

 

[MCB18]

I raise that issue, because I don't know whether ~ 60 years ago there might have been peculiarities of the Italian market for that industrial use of bulk loads that meant that the cores for those films were different than the ones we were used to seeing back then, or are used to seeing now. If so, those loaders might be designed to use those different cores.

I did a bit of research, and it was kind of annoying because everything was in Italian, and I had to translate it bit by bit, but your conclusion about these specific winders that seem to have only been sold in Italy is correct. They do seem to use a different core.

Looking online, it seems like they were meant to hold the 50mm cinema cores with a 25mm hole, I can only assume this is because Ferrenia supplied bulk film this way.

@Rosssiiii you can use these loaders for some film, but there are some things to keep in mind. The z15 will only hold around 50 feet of film, so this will not work. The other loaders, z30 and z60, will fit a 100 foot roll, but if you buy from a place that uses a 25mm core, like Ilford or Kodak, you will have to knock the core out from the center of the roll, which is possible, but might be very annoying and could lead to a giant mess of film if you accidentally dropped it.

I would highly recommend skipping over this type, and looking for something else. Lloyd, Watson, and Alden all make loaders compatible with all the common types of 100 ft film.

 

[koraks]

You want the Watson loader!

IDK. I have two, they're alright, but not the best.
If OP is in the market for a new one, I'd suggest https://www.fotoimpex.com/brands/ap-bobinquick-junior-film-loader-for-30m-bulk-film-rolls.html
On the Watsons the counter mechanism gets stuck all the time and the gears strip. The handle breaks off easily. You lose the last bit of film on the roll as it's fogged unless you perform a trick to avoid this and/or avoid exposing all the way up to the last bit of film. It gets the job done and they're readily available as there are so many around, but I really, really doubt it was/is the best tool for the job.

 

[MCB18]

IDK. I have two, they're alright, but not the best.
If OP is in the market for a new one, I'd suggest https://www.fotoimpex.com/brands/ap-bobinquick-junior-film-loader-for-30m-bulk-film-rolls.html

Damn, the price of these sure went down! I remember when finding one of these for $150 was a great deal.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, the Watson's have been made for so long that there are a wide variety of them.
While they all work similarly, some are much more robust than others.
I used to have more than one. I gave away the least robust one, and kept the best.
I also have something similar to that bobinquick version.
Both that and the Watson type have their advantages.

your conclusion about these specific winders that seem to have only been sold in Italy is correct. They do seem to use a different core.

Thanks for checking on this - it was actually not a conclusion - I lacked data - but a concern about a possibility.

 

[MCB18]

FWIW, the Watson's have been made for so long that there are a wide variety of them.
While they all work similarly, some are much more robust than others.
I used to have more than one. I gave away the least robust one, and kept the best.
I also have something similar to that bobinquick version.
Both that and the Watson type have their advantages.

I have used my Watson loader for the better part of five years now, never had an issue with it. It works well, although I find myself using it less and less just because I more often than not just go in the dark room to load film now. I also have an LPL Dayroll deluxe, which is like the bobbinquick loader, except not quite as fancy. Again, I don’t use it so much now, but it is nice because it doesn’t waste as much film at the end of the roll.

Thanks for checking on this - it was actually not a conclusion - I lacked data - but a concern about a possibility.

I guess conclusion might not have been the right word, suspicion would probably have been better.

 

[Kino]

I like the Alden line of bulk loaders that are made of a material that resembles bakelite. There is the Model 200 for 200 foot loads and the 74 for 100 foot loads.

Very well made. I think they were made in Detroit back when Detroit actually made things other than overpriced pickups.