Beyond The Zone System without phone but an calculator and enlarged curves

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I found old and new btzs books and reached to that conclusion , if you dont have expert curves enlarged and full sampled for each film and developer , and if your software hardware cant calculate from these curves , you have no business with btzs method. I contacted with expo/dev app maker , he advised me to use latest apple phone which 2500 dollars here.

I am thinking loud , if I enlarge 10X the for example tri x and d76 curve, if I carry a milimetric ruler and if I can save few programs in a casio calculator, what is my chance ? How can I calculate the multimetered light ?

And now another problem rises also, how can I find btzs pretested info ?

By the way, I can carry one olympus , two canon eos for n, n+1, n+2 development.

 

[Paul Howell]

In the first edition of BTZY Phil David used a Magic Wheel which was packaged with the book to calculate exposure, in the back he provides instructions for making one if the Wheel was missing from the book. He also provides directions for using a spot meter as a desensatomer both transmission and reflective.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

You don't need the zone system. Forget about it.

 

[Dani]

An older iPhone would work just fine. You can just check and see if said older iPhone is compatible with the latest iOS and that’s all you would need. You can get an old iPhone 12, the smaller one and I bet those are cheap to find.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

In the first edition of BTZY Phil David used a Magic Wheel which was packaged with the book to calculate exposure, in the back he provides instructions for making one if the Wheel was missing from the book. He also provides directions for using a spot meter as a desensatomer both transmission and reflective.

I downloaded the first edition , 1981, and there is wonder wheel description. I want to ask that idiot question , is wonder wheel usable on all films , developers , papers or is it specific for one solution. Book is too complicated.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

An older iPhone would work just fine. You can just check and see if said older iPhone is compatible with the latest iOS and that’s all you would need. You can get an old iPhone 12, the smaller one and I bet those are cheap to find.

No working iphone is cheap here.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

You don't need the zone system. Forget about it.

Please back up your claim with facts and reasons.

 

[MattKing]

Of course, Beyond the Zone System doesn't really use the Zone System

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

My book scan copy is in poor quality and I need wonder wheel print files in PDF or CAD or I only want to buy the wheel , not the book.

 

[Paul Howell]

I downloaded the first edition , 1981, and there is wonder wheel description. I want to ask that idiot question , is wonder wheel usable on all films , developers , papers or is it specific for one solution. Book is too complicated.

As far I can figure out, all films and papers matched with a developer of the user choice. But if you read the first edition Phil Davis was clear that BTZS is for sheet film, each sheet is exposed and developed for a given scene and SBR. If you are shooting roll film BTZS along with Zone System has limitations.

I need wonder wheel print files in PDF or CAD or I only want to buy the wheel .

The wonder wheel was only used for the first edition, by the second Davis had developed an app for a Palm Pilot followed by a Smart Phone. I believe there are apps for Android and Apple. Finding an intact working Wonder Wheel will be a real find.


You don't need the zone system. Forget about it.

BTZS is not the Zone, the only aspect of the Zone System used by Phil Davis was a version of the 10 Zones, he reduced the number of Zones to 7, the zones with texture.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Please back up your claim with facts and reasons.

In fact, films are designed to be easy to use without any extra work. All film should be developed the same. Use compensating developers, which will let the highlight and shadows fall perfectly into place. Sorry, I can't edit the pdf. This is T-Max 400 developed in FX-21, a test shot to show how well the detail is held in the brightest and darkest areas, no dodging or burning. I do have another print, made from a different negative given one more stop than this one. It shows a bit more detail in the shadows. I'll try to get a scan put up here soon.

 

[BCM]

This was a typical question when I'd teach BTZS worlshops both locally and with Phil. We always tried to keep people from using the calculator as a crutch. It was important to view the scene, take readings and then make decisions on EVERYTHING ranges, etc. Regarding exposure times and field adjustments, you can simply take your favorite film and developer combinations (dramatically reduced these days) and print out charts. Plotter/matcher on the PC can be used to do this so you don't need a calculator or iPhone.

Unless you are doing something DRAMATICALLY different from what the test show, don't use fresh developer, etc. you'll be fine for most applications. We used to find students being off "correct exposure" by 2-3 stops, equipment being off by 2x (exposure) and meter readings off as well so development was less critical (+/- 10-15%). Using an incident meter usually clears up most exposure issues in the field and you can read about that method in the book or watch the on-line videos posted by The View Camera Store.

Paper notes in the field for 2-3 developer and film combinations is what I keep for backup in one of my sheet film bags.

 

[BCM]

In fact, films are designed to be easy to use without any extra work. All film should be developed the same. Use compensating developers, which will let the highlight and shadows fall perfectly into place. Sorry, I can't edit the pdf. This is T-Max 400 developed in FX-21, a test shot to show how well the detail is held in the brightest and darkest areas, no dodging or burning. I do have another print, made from a different negative given one more stop than this one. It shows a bit more detail in the shadows. I'll try to get a scan put up here soon.

I'd disagree here as TriX and other films do not always respond well to compensating developers over more than one stop or so. TMX and TMY have very different characteristics and respond to developers different than older emulsions that many of us still use. You also have to worry about the variables from different dilutions and oxidation issues for smaller volumes. Using fixed dilutions and changing times is more consistent for most users. Of course, to each their own.

 

[loccdor]

OP is using 35mm film. Bracketing any important shots is more practical than using a complicated system.

 

[mshchem]

Might be easier to buy the phone

 

[Paul Howell]

Buying a phone and an app is worthless without a very good if not complete understanding of BTZS. As noted by OP it is a complicated system, much more reliant on the science of Sensitomerty than AA's or Minor White version of the Zone. Without a densitometer or a spot meter to cobble together a makeshift unit having the app will be useless. Here in the U.S the View Camera Store will test film for a price, both sheet and roll film.

In OP case I recommend that he find a downloadable copy of Carson Graves The Zone System for 35mm Photographers which will allow him to apply principles of AA Zone System to 35mm roll film. Graves uses a ring around exposure test to determine E.I.