Tiny particles in XT-3 after a day

[photonaro]

I started using XT-3 (1 liter) a couple of years ago after having used X-tol (5 liters) for many years regularly.
I never had issues with X-tol, but switched because of the convenience of the 1 liter solutions.

Every time I mix a fresh solution of XT-3 I notice already 1 day later tiny particles building up in the solution.
When I developed films without filtering the solution through pantyhose, they came out with tiny specks (so the tiny particles influence the development).
When I develop films with totally fresh solution just mixed, they turn out fine.

I've been having this issue with XT-3 every time, with varying production batches of the powder.
I mix and store the solutions exactly the same way I did with X-tol, same location, same water, same sealed glass bottles. X-tol used to stay fresh and clean for at least 6 months.

Has anybody else had issues with XT-3?
Any ideas where this can come from, considering it never happened with X-tol?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Sanug]

I use XT-3 regulary since 2 years. Mix as a 2:1 concentrate with 500ml water instead 1 litre. Fill it in some 50ml glass bottles to avoid oxidation. I never had any issue.

Maybe you have an issue with your water. I would try to avoid the issue by using a different water source and filtering the solution.

Another idea: At which temperature do you store the solution? Maybe it is too cold?

 

[koraks]

ADOX XT-3 (beautiful) "sparkles" in solution

Hello This is not the first time I see that, and I wonder what it is. This XT-3 1 liter stock has 2 weeks, and is stored in 4 x 250 glass bottles, filled up the cap. It’s just like small glitter dusts, sparks or crystal needles that dissolve slowly (for eyes, not sure at molecular level)...

www.photrio.com

This might be of interest.

 

[photonaro]

Thanks a lot for your replies and for the link to the other thread.
What the OP there describes is precisely the same phenomenon that I'm encountering, in all details but the water - I use tap water.
I will try changing the water and if that doesn't work then I'll change bottles and see.

I mix at a temperature of around 24c and store in brown glass bottles at around 20c. I think that should be fine, shouldn't it?

 

[koraks]

Yes, temperatures sound fine, I don't see how that could be a problem save perhaps for some of the material not easily going into solution at such a low temperature. When I mix my DIY Instant Mytol I start with fairly hot water to dissolve the borax, which otherwise would go into solution only very slowly and with difficulty. I don't know, however, what the composition of XT-3 is precisely and whether the same concern applies.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Thanks a lot for your replies and for the link to the other thread.
What the OP there describes is precisely the same phenomenon that I'm encountering, in all details but the water - I use tap water.
I will try changing the water and if that doesn't work then I'll change bottles and see.

I mix at a temperature of around 24c and store in brown glass bottles at around 20c. I think that should be fine, shouldn't it?

I've never had after-mix particle problems with either Xtol or XT-3, but I use much, much warmer distilled water when I make my batches. I also use a large stainless steel bowl on a magnetic hotplate stirrer with a longish mixing time. I don't know if that's the proper procedure or not, but it works very well for me.
I'd bet the problem is that maybe one chemical additive in these developers likes hotter water (maybe distilled is important) and slightly longer mixing times to go into solution. I'm going to stick with the way I do it until it doesn't work anymore. "If it ain't broke, don't fix It", is my policy

 

[photonaro]

Yes, temperatures sound fine, I don't see how that could be a problem save perhaps for some of the material not easily going into solution at such a low temperature. When I mix my DIY Instant Mytol I start with fairly hot water to dissolve the borax, which otherwise would go into solution only very slowly and with difficulty. I don't know, however, what the composition of XT-3 is precisely and whether the same concern applies.

I think XT-3 is supposed to be borate-free (I'm not a chemist, but a quick google search says borax to be a type of borate).
The temperature range noted on the XT-3 packages is 20-27/29c, so I'm suppose to be within the range, and most people don't have issue with this.. so I'm guessing it must be something else in the process..

I've never had after-mix particle problems with either Xtol or XT-3, but I use much, much warmer distilled water when I make my batches. I also use a large stainless steel bowl on a magnetic hotplate stirrer with a longish mixing time. I don't know if that's the proper procedure or not, but it works very well for me.
I'd bet the problem is that maybe one chemical additive in these developers likes hotter water (maybe distilled is important) and slightly longer mixing times to go into solution. I'm going to stick with the way I do it until it doesn't work anymore. "If it ain't broke, don't fix It", is my policy

Around which temperature are you using for this?
The temperature range noted on the XT-3 packages is 20-27/29c, so I'm suppose to be within the range, and most people don't have issue with this.. so I'm guessing it must be something else in the process..


I'm mixing another batch tomorrow and I'll do it with distilled water. If that doesn't help, I'll try next time using different bottles. And if that doesn't work, I'll go on to warmer water and longer dissolving time. Or maybe I'll switch the order of these steps. In any case, hopefully somewhere along the way the problem will resolve. I'll update here with any positive results. Thanks all of you for your tips and thoughts!

 

[mshchem]

I think XT-3 is supposed to be borate-free (I'm not a chemist, but a quick google search says borax to be a type of borate).
The temperature range noted on the XT-3 packages is 20-27/29c, so I'm suppose to be within the range, and most people don't have issue with this.. so I'm guessing it must be something else in the process..



Around which temperature are you using for this?
The temperature range noted on the XT-3 packages is 20-27/29c, so I'm suppose to be within the range, and most people don't have issue with this.. so I'm guessing it must be something else in the process..


I'm mixing another batch tomorrow and I'll do it with distilled water. If that doesn't help, I'll try next time using different bottles. And if that doesn't work, I'll go on to warmer water and longer dissolving time. Or maybe I'll switch the order of these steps. In any case, hopefully somewhere along the way the problem will resolve. I'll update here with any positive results. Thanks all of you for your tips and thoughts!

I use demineralized water, clean glass bottles. These tiny sparkles appeared on standing. It's the nature of this stuff.

 

[photonaro]

I use demineralized water, clean glass bottles. These tiny sparkles appeared on standing. It's the nature of this stuff.

And it doesn't impact your films?
Unfortunately in my case when I didn't filter it first, the sparkles caused irremovable flecks on the films...

 

[John Wiegerink]

I think XT-3 is supposed to be borate-free (I'm not a chemist, but a quick google search says borax to be a type of borate).
The temperature range noted on the XT-3 packages is 20-27/29c, so I'm suppose to be within the range, and most people don't have issue with this.. so I'm guessing it must be something else in the process..



Around which temperature are you using for this?
The temperature range noted on the XT-3 packages is 20-27/29c, so I'm suppose to be within the range, and most people don't have issue with this.. so I'm guessing it must be something else in the process..


I'm mixing another batch tomorrow and I'll do it with distilled water. If that doesn't help, I'll try next time using different bottles. And if that doesn't work, I'll go on to warmer water and longer dissolving time. Or maybe I'll switch the order of these steps. In any case, hopefully somewhere along the way the problem will resolve. I'll update here with any positive results. Thanks all of you for your tips and thoughts!

Sorry for the late reply, but just check the site. I never mix below 85F and it might range as high as the lower-90's. It's whatever I catch the hotplate stirrer at. I have had no problems so far at those tempts. One batch I made was at 105F (fell asleep at the switch) and it worked fine. That batch was one-shot type mix. All later batches I have made, which is two, were for XT-3 replenished. I never use tap water to mix stock developers and always use distilled water. For working developer solutions I will use tap water on occasion.

 

[dynachrome]

If I get nearly all of the powdered ingredients dissolved with a given developer and a few odd things are floating around, I will just filter them out.

 

[mshchem]

And it doesn't impact your films?
Unfortunately in my case when I didn't filter it first, the sparkles caused irremovable flecks on the films...

I didn't really get to know the stuff. I developed a couple test rolls. I prefer the regular Kodak version. I avoided the "bad" batches of the Kodak stuff. I've been using Kodak XTOL since it appeared. Photo Pro in Cedar Rapids Iowa, the owner Dave Johnson gave me a bag of the experimental version supplied to him by Kodak. Wasn't even called XTOL, had an experimental number on the package .

 

[photonaro]

I didn't really get to know the stuff. I developed a couple test rolls. I prefer the regular Kodak version. I avoided the "bad" batches of the Kodak stuff. I've been using Kodak XTOL since it appeared. Photo Pro in Cedar Rapids Iowa, the owner Dave Johnson gave me a bag of the experimental version supplied to him by Kodak. Wasn't even called XTOL, had an experimental number on the package .

Do you notice these sparkles also in x-tol? I used to use x-tol and never noticed anything..

 

[photonaro]

Sorry for the late reply, but just check the site. I never mix below 85F and it might range as high as the lower-90's. It's whatever I catch the hotplate stirrer at. I have had no problems so far at those tempts. One batch I made was at 105F (fell asleep at the switch) and it worked fine. That batch was one-shot type mix. All later batches I have made, which is two, were for XT-3 replenished. I never use tap water to mix stock developers and always use distilled water. For working developer solutions I will use tap water on occasion.

Thanks, John. I will try warmer temperatures and distilled water. Crossing my fingers one of them will solve the issue.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Thanks, John. I will try warmer temperatures and distilled water. Crossing my fingers one of them will solve the issue.

No guarantee, but worth a try.

 

[mshchem]

Do you notice these sparkles also in x-tol? I used to use x-tol and never noticed anything..

Never.

 

[photonaro]

Never.

Hmmm... I suppose if neither of my attempts (different bottles, distilled water, higher mixing temperature) resolve the issue, I'll be going back to x-tol..

 

[Sanug]

I just checked my XT-3 and found some sparkles in one of my bottles. I always set up the 1 litre pack with half amount of warm tap water and fill it into some small 50ml glass bottles. The concentrate shows some sparkles in one already opened bottle only. The other fully filled bottles are fine. Maybe the issue arises due to the low temperature in my basement during the winter time.

I never hand any issue visible on film (and I use a lot of XT-3 with the mentioned procedure). When I will develop the next film, I will check the dilution after warming it up, and filter it if necessary.

 

[konakoa]

I’ve had a slight issue with XT-3 and large format sheet film. With sheet film I’ve done using XT-3 in tray development little tiny high density spots have formed in every negative. It’s glaringly obvious in skies as the smooth toned areas are peppered with dark little blotches. I’ve used XT-3 mixed moments before use, and sitting in glass bottles for a week. Always made with distilled water. It has been clear on mixing and I’ve looked in the beaker and the storage bottles for sparkles but have not seen anything ever floating in it.

Yet these tiny way overdeveloped zits happen every time and I have to assume micro-fine particles of undissolved chemistry being reported are the culprit. They must be settling on my sheet of film when it’s not being rocked in the tray and causing these spots of excessive density. The exact same films with other developers come out fine.

In all rotary (Jobo 3005, 3006) drums I’ve done there are no issues whatsoever with XT-3, but then the chemistry within is never stationary like it is in trays so likely these particles can’t sit and party on the film.

I so like the one liter packets of XT-3. The one liter size is perfect, no dust on mixing. However I went back to the five liter pouches of Xtol. There have been no problems at all with any of the new and current five liter Xtol packets I’ve been using, sheet films are coming out perfect. But Kodak, calling it Xdev now? Ugh.